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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls (Read 25764 times)
Uncle_Ethan
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C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Aug 16th, 2008 at 11:43am
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I own two C H Armory Highwalls.  One is a lightweight barreled 45/70 with the serial number EXP NO. 1 , the other is in 250/3000 and has a model number [1001 I believe] but doesn't have a serial number or safety installed.  Both are hammerless versions of the Highwall with no iron sights, just early [from the 60ties] Weaver scopes.  The only mention I have ever found was in a book "Single Shot Rifles" [or a title similar] indicating that the reloading equipment firm was beginning to build the rifles.  I contacted the C H reloading firm and the owner e-mailed me indicating that it was now the wrong century and wrong company to get information from, and gave me the prior owners name.  I believe that is the estate I purchased the rifles from.  Does anyone have any information about these rifles, the number manufactured and sold, or any information at all?  So far, except for the one book, I have come up empty.  Thanks for any help anyone can provide.
« Last Edit: Sep 6th, 2008 at 5:22pm by »  
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1878
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #1 - Aug 16th, 2008 at 6:55pm
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I have an original sales flyer for the rifle, from C&H when they still in Southern California.  I won't be able to scan it for you until the end of the week because I am literally "going fishing".  Drop me a PM with your e-mail address and I will do it then.
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #2 - Aug 16th, 2008 at 10:57pm
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Thank you, 1878.  I would love to see that advertising.  I will take photos of the rifles and if I can figure out how I will post them.  For sure I will send you copies.  This is encouraging, I wonder how many rifles are out there.
  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #3 - Aug 17th, 2008 at 11:02am
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It's very likely that your actions were made by Bo Clerke who currently has a company in Raton, New Mexico and specializes in 22 RF barrels. Bo makes most of the Ruger 10/22 barrels that are on the market. There's quite a few of those actions around and some of my friends still use them, some are marked CH some aren't, as I recall they have a rack & pinion gear between the lever and block. I've never owned one.

Bob
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #4 - Aug 17th, 2008 at 6:34pm
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Schutzenbob wrote on Aug 17th, 2008 at 11:02am:
It's very likely that your actions were made by Bo Clerke who currently has a company in Raton, New Mexico and specializes in 22 RF barrels. Bo makes most of the Ruger 10/22 barrels that are on the market. There's quite a few of those actions around and some of my friends still use them, some are marked CH some aren't, as I recall they have a rack & pinion gear between the lever and block. I've never owned one.

Bob

Thank you for the help.  Do you happen to know the name of Bo Clerke's business?  I would love to pick his brain about the actions and the rifles.  I appreciate all the help from everyone.
  
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #5 - Aug 20th, 2008 at 10:32pm
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Bob

Believe the rifle with the rack & pinion gearing between the lever and block was the Riedl - If I remember correctly it was written up in an old issue of GUN WORLD.  The one I had the opportunity to handle was in a 6mm wildcat.

The CH Armoury (Clerke) uses a link between the lever and the block if my memory serves.

Bill
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #6 - Aug 21st, 2008 at 10:32am
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Well, after 10 or more years of owning the rifles, this forum has provided me with more information than I have found available anywhere.  Thanks to you all, and if anyone has anything to add I want to learn about it.
  
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trev
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #7 - Sep 1st, 2008 at 12:40pm
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Uncle_Ethan

Frank DeHaas wrote of the Clerke actions (there were two versions written about) in Single Shot Rifles, Design and Construction, if memory is serving correctly. 
It has been out of print for a while, but you may be able to get a copy through your public library.

A kind gent sent me scans of the article, and if you send me a PM, I may be able to find them and make arrangements to get them to you. The electronic files are quite large, and may cause your email to give some grief. 

The Clerke Highwall was very similar in principle, to the Winchester, but did not look as well finished, due to the speed with which it was pushed through production. This was apparently the cause of Mr Clerke parting ways with the outfit that was marketing those rifles, from what I have gathered.

Cheers
  Trev
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #8 - Sep 1st, 2008 at 3:50pm
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Trev, I send you a PM for sending me the information.  Thanks for the help.  I am sending Mr. Clerke pictures of the two rifles for identification- the rifles aren't as the advertising pictures "1878" sent me - mine are hammerless and the advertising pics show a hammer.
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #9 - Sep 4th, 2008 at 7:28pm
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Well, I'm back to square one- almost.  I received an e-mail from Bo Clerke today after he looked at the photos, and he said they never came from C H, because all his had hammers.  If I can figure out [or Trev shows me how] to post the pics, maybe someone will have an idea where they came from, or who did the work.  The unfinished one I am thinking of rebarreling to 40-65 or such.  That is the one that has the more reddish tint to the action.  I will have to find out if the chemicals for French Grey will work OK with high nickel actions.  However, I now have literature and information to work with, and I will post the pictures soonest.  Thanks for the help.
  
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trev
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #10 - Sep 4th, 2008 at 8:13pm
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Looking at the pictures, they look like someone was playing with either a striker conversion, or an enclosed hammer conversion.
The action castings look to be identical to the ones I have.

They look very much to my eye like a High Wall crossed with a Borchardt    (spelling?) action, but what do I know...
I am sure that the guys on the forum will have somewhat more to add.

There are a couple posts in the Forum Help forum that relate to picture posting.

The method that works best for me is to upload the pictures to a photo hosting site online (I use Photobucket) then copy the IMG code from there into the message that I am writing.
It's yet another thing to sign up for, as well as remember the passwords for, but has proven to be the most reliable, and uses the least of the forums resources. It has also proven to be a good place to store stuff tha I might wish to be able to access while I am visiting friends and may wish to show them.

Like- (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
I have not tried the Forums uploading software for pictures.

Cheers
  Trev
  
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trev
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #11 - Sep 4th, 2008 at 8:22pm
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(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Hows that?  One picture of each of the rifles for the perusal of the group, and I can get the rest up (which show overall views and some details) if they are of interest.

FWIW I have seen the plum colored bluing as being a result of several different things, attributed to the alloy elements in the steel, the temperatures being incorrect, or the salts being contaminated. Could be all three, or something else.

Cheers
  Trev
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #12 - Sep 4th, 2008 at 8:37pm
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Thanks Trev- I can also send pictures to anyone's e-mail address, or take pictures of a particular area.  I suppose I need to take the action apart to see if it is a striker or internal hammer.  The unfinished rifle seems to have a action that is a little shorter at the front.  I would suppose they are strong enough for black powder cartridges.  Apparently someone made them up from the C H actions.
  
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38_Cal
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #13 - Sep 4th, 2008 at 8:40pm
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It's really common to see that color on cast steel and cast iron due to their chemistry, and certain steels due to their heat treatment properties, when hot caustic blued.  It's not a salts contamination problem, or even a temperature problem.  When I worked in a gun shop in the Peace Loving People's Socialist Democratic Republic of California, we would regularly find brand new Ruger rifles & revolvers that color when first unwrapped to put out for display.  Some of our women customers found it attractive!   Grin

David
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David Kaiser
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trev
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #14 - Sep 4th, 2008 at 8:58pm
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Definitely take a bunch of pictures if you take one of the actions apart.

If either were mine, I doubt that they'd have even made it into the gun locker before I had to see how the insides looked. Cheesy

Cheers
  Trev
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #15 - Sep 4th, 2008 at 9:33pm
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Thanks guys- Trev, I just retired- I was working 80 hours a week and traveling while my wonderful wife held down the fort with the three kids.  I would have  sent you pictures of gun parts and asked for help in figuring out how to put them back together. Tongue  38_Cal- where did you work in Ca?  I moved from North SD county a year and a half ago.  There were a few good gunshops left in Orange County last I heard.
  
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38_Cal
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #16 - Sep 4th, 2008 at 10:47pm
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Siegle's Guns in Oakland...no longer there in great part due to the lovely voters and former Gov, and then Mayor, Jerry Brown, who got a measure passed taxing any business that sold handguns or handgun ammo at 3% of their gross sales of all items in the business.  Been gone from there 21 years, worked for Brownells until last October when they "downsized" me.

David
Montezuma, IA
  

David Kaiser
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #17 - Sep 4th, 2008 at 11:11pm
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Well, I'm not surprised about Oakland- I buy from Brownells occasionally.  Hope you are well situated now.
  
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leadball
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #18 - Sep 6th, 2008 at 3:09pm
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uncle_ethan;
                   Your rifles looks very much like a regular Clerke rifle that has been fitted with a striker breeckblock, the pictures show the contour of the Clerke, even the original finger lever. I would be very suprised to find that they were internal hammers as opposed to strikers.
             The Clerke's had a very bright colorcase hardened receiver, this is the reason the receivers turned plum, when someone tried to blue the action before removing the old colors.    leadball
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #19 - Sep 6th, 2008 at 5:22pm
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Thank you Leadball.  Any idea who did this type of work?  I will take pictures as I disassemble the inferior rifle to find out which it is.  I have an opd Highwall barrel that was re-rifles from 40 cal to 45-70 that I may put on it if the threaded end fits.  It will take a bunch of draw filing to make the barrel nice again.  Any idea what I should do to the action before I french grey it?
  
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leadball
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #20 - Sep 6th, 2008 at 7:53pm
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uncle_ethan
                  I don't know about the french gray finish, but there is a finish called "metalife" that can be applied on about any metal, it can be done in sort of a french gray. Someone here can give you their web address if your interested.   leadball
  
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #21 - Sep 6th, 2008 at 8:27pm
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Uncle_Ethan, the company leadball is referring to is Mahovsky's MetaLife and they advertise in the SSR Journal last time I looked.  If you can't find them, drop me a PM and I'll dig out an address.  BTW, Dale53 used that process on a Hurst-engraved Ballard and it's gaw-juss!  I think he went with a matte finish (very fine bead blasting) before the coating so it wouldn't be too shiny.

Froggie
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #22 - Sep 6th, 2008 at 11:31pm
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Thanks to all for the help and information.  I had hoped for this kind of collaboration to gather more information.  The EX.1 rifle in 45-70 has a variable power weaver, and with the light weight of the barrel, it had to be designed for hunting, as I would think more than 3 shots would heat up the bbl pretty bad.  Anyone have any ideas or suggestions, please send them on.
  
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #23 - Sep 7th, 2008 at 10:37pm
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How is French Gray done?
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #24 - Sep 8th, 2008 at 11:42am
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I would have to try to find the chemical name for it, but the engraver that did the work on my son's No.1 tropical rifle let me help him.  Basically we totally degreased and polished the action after the engraving [and before, of course] and just treated the "in the white" action with the chemical.  As I remember, it wasn't a rare or expensive chemical used in the etching process of semi-conductors.
  
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"French Gray" finish
Reply #25 - Sep 8th, 2008 at 1:48pm
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French Gray finishing is more of a descriptive term for a result than a specific chemical process.  There's probably as many ways of doing it as there are gunsmiths doing it!

The way I do it is to first polish to a 400 to 500 grit finish, then abrasive blast using aluminum oxide blasting grit.  Degrease the steel parts thoroughly using Gun Scrubber, TCE, or a brake cleaner that leaves no residue.  Warm the parts using an electric heat gun to about 90 to 100 F, and spray on a clear epoxy based paint, like Brownells Acra Coat for Metal.  This gives a semi-gloss finish over a gray color.  If you use glass beads instead of aluminum oxide, it will be a silver color.   

I cure the paint in a heat box...an aluminum foil lined cardboard box of about 3 or 4 cubic feet, with a 75 watt light bulb in it, with the parts hung from a cross bar.  I use an electric cooking thermometer to keep track of the inside temperature, trying for about 140 to 160 F.  Three days or so in the box is like a week or two at 68 degrees room temperature.

After the paint has cured, it holds up very well to handling and even rubbing by a breech seater.  It probably took about 2500 rounds to visibly wear the side of my centerfire Martini 12/15 reciever finish using the breech seater I built for it.

David Kaiser
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David Kaiser
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Paul_F.
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #26 - Sep 8th, 2008 at 1:58pm
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Etching of semi-conductors or circuit boards?
I have used Ferric Chloride circuit board etch to etch and color (dark gray) some knives.. That might work on a rifle action if diluted some... "straight" was a pretty strong etch.

The finish comes out like a weak parkerizing... has held up pretty well though.


Paul F.
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #27 - Sep 8th, 2008 at 2:12pm
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I can't find the name of the chemical we used- action came out about the same as my Prussian made drilling, and has held up very well.  I was surprised at how well it held up for as easy as it was to do.  A rather light grey, looks noce with the gold engraving.
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #28 - Sep 19th, 2008 at 2:46pm
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I now believe the chemical used was Phosphoric acid.  After polishing and engraving the action was cleaned and degreased- then rinsed with distilled water- then the phosphoric acid [same stuff used in parkerizing] was applied at room temperature.  After several coats the action was rinsed again and then coated with either oil or a thin clear varnish to prevent rusting as the pores of the metal were exposed and needed sealing.  Try it on a piece of steel or old action that needs re-bluing [the chemical will remove bluing] and see if the color is right.  I am going to try to find some locally and try it.
  
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Tar_Baby
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #29 - Sep 19th, 2008 at 8:01pm
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naval jelly,wash in soda water


.is how i do it----sun lite will make it darker and it can be maintained with used  motor oil from engine.
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MAD MIKE
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #30 - Sep 19th, 2008 at 10:00pm
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my understanding is;color case,then navel jell the color off.                    CH highwalls were "case colored" with an acetalene torch.
  
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #31 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 10:05pm
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I'm more than a little interested in this thread, because I have two unfinished frames that are EXACTLY what is shown in that picture.  They were sold to me as being for a Bo Clerke "improved highwall", but I have never found any more information about the design of the guts of the thing.   

Being a Borchardt fan as well, (though I have been unable to cannot afford but one), the idea of duplicating a Borchardt breechblock concept in these two is very exciting.

More please !   If you take one of those apart, please post pictures !

« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2008 at 10:19pm by uscra112 »  

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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #32 - Oct 2nd, 2008 at 10:39pm
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I will take apart the one that doesn't have a safety, and take photos as I do.  Not sure exactly when, as I haven't taken one apart before, and I am trying to learn enough to become open a computer repair business which is sorely needed in these parts.  Being retired means I have to find a source of income so I can buy those rifles I haven't gotten yet- and Bullards cost money.
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #33 - Oct 5th, 2008 at 5:08pm
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Well, I took the rifle apart to a degree.  I am sending pics to be posted, but I won't take apart the falling block that contains all the parts [striker, etc. until I look at the DeHass book more on the Borschart[sp] action so I know I can put it back together.  The internals on the two rifles seem to be identical.  Was there a company that made up intenal parts to convert these rifles to that type of action.  I will post those pics that look OK- I'm having problems with focus and lighting to show parts.
  
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harry_eales
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #34 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 4:23am
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Quote:
Well, I took the rifle apart to a degree.  I am sending pics to be posted, but I won't take apart the falling block that contains all the parts [striker, etc. until I look at the DeHass book more on the Borschart[sp] action so I know I can put it back together.  The internals on the two rifles seem to be identical.  Was there a company that made up intenal parts to convert these rifles to that type of action.  I will post those pics that look OK- I'm having problems with focus and lighting to show parts.


I'll look forward to seeing your pictures Uncle_Ethan. There have been a very small number of striker conversions built on Hi-wall actions, but I have not come across one based on the Borchardt style striker.

If yours is a copy of the Borchardt Breechblock, then it is a doddle to take apart.

Harry
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #35 - Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:55am
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Well, both actions seem to be identical using a striker with a long trigger that reaches up to the striker area.  I am wondering if the company who bought the parts from C-H had some made up, as there is the same German Iron Cross stamped or cast into the falling block unit as is on the lever.  The internals are not identical to the Borchardt, as the trigger and entire action drops down when you work the lever.  Really pretty clever and less prone to getting dirty.  I also noticed that all major parts have been rockwell tested- I guess I should have tested them on my equipment before I moved- but if I change the caliber on this one I will use a low pressure cartridge so I don't anticipate any problems.
  
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acelungger
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #36 - Oct 8th, 2008 at 8:52pm
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Uncle E, I have a Clerke Action on it's way to me, I should have it by the last of the week. Now this is one of the Clerke Action Kits sold years ago.I will do my best to post good photo of it and any parts I might get/ I am not sure if it has any parts, it is suppose to, but now days who knows! I went on line and looked the Clerke action up and printed it off!
I will do what i can to help!
ACE
  
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Uncle_Ethan
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #37 - Oct 8th, 2008 at 9:50pm
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Quote:
Uncle E, I have a Clerke Action on it's way to me, I should have it by the last of the week. Now this is one of the Clerke Action Kits sold years ago.I will do my best to post good photo of it and any parts I might get/ I am not sure if it has any parts, it is suppose to, but now days who knows! I went on line and looked the Clerke action up and printed it off!
I will do what i can to help!
ACE

I appreciate that- I can't seem to get the pictures to post from photobucket.  The action has a striker about 1" in diameter, and the trigger has a long reach up to that area- the lever has a toggle that is supposed to cock the striker upon opening [or closing] but it wasn't working.  Not a lot of moving parts.
  
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acelungger
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #38 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 6:50pm
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In need of advice, help or any of the above and more! I recieved a Clerke Hi Wall reciever, just a bare new reciever, and from what I have read, Wichestern repro parts won't work. I am a newbie to machinest work, I have a little lathe and have been looikng for a mill, kinda wanted a older table top, they seem to be a better made and won't wear out like the new mini mills. But I havn't made any type of decission yet. I have chapter 8 out of Frank dehass book about the Clerke Hi wall, and there might be enough info for a highly trainted machinest to make the parts, put with no deminsions i am lost! Does anyone know if the rel blue prints are avaible or if parts can be found our?????
And help, advice or what ever! I will be great full!!
Thanks ACE
  
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Re: C H Armory "Improved" Highwalls
Reply #39 - Oct 9th, 2008 at 6:53pm
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Have you tried Bo Clerke in Raton, NM?  He has a barrel making operation there.

David
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