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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Rumor or Fact? (Read 5795 times)
DonH
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Rumor or Fact?
Jun 6th, 2008 at 5:58am
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Does anyone personally know of persons who have had problems such as detached retina which could be traced to shooting activities? I have, in the past, read reports of this related to shooting heavier recoiling rifles but need to know if this is rumor or fact.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Rumor or Fact?
Reply #1 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 7:41am
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Don, like you, I have heard lots of anecdotal evidence of such things, but nothing that I could really call objective and documentary.  I do know that once it has occurred, detached retina leads eye surgeons to tell shooters to stop using heavily recoiling arms, but whether the detachment can be caused by recoil... I think the jury is still out.  JMHO, of course but take it for what it's worth.

Froggie

PS  Snail mail is on the way (left yesterday)... you know what it is.  Thanks again for all of your help!
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: Rumor or Fact?
Reply #2 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 9:25am
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Back when I was much younger I used an opthalmologist who was, IMO, the best I've seen by far. He told me that folks who are very nearsighted (myopic) have such a 'steep' eyeball shape that the retina has a tendency to detach anyway, and that a sharp or heavy shock could more readily detach it. Well, I'm about as myopic as it gets (- 13) and he told me that I was at very high risk. He cautioned me against heavy recoil, but had no anecdotes to relate.

I've known a couple of folks who've experienced detached retinas but neither was a shooter. I have shot some very heavy recoilers but not very often, and I don't shoot no stinkin' 378 Weatherby at all, at all, 'cause one o' them puppies will make an 8-lb 458 Win Mag seem like a 22!
Regards, Joe
  
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waterman
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Re: Rumor or Fact?
Reply #3 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 11:26am
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What JD said is correct.  I have a similar condition and have experienced 4 flashes of retinal tearing which I'm told must eventually be repaired.  The first two occurred while I was at work, sitting in front of the computer.  The third happened while I was driving at night and on a mountain road and was damned scary. I quit driving at night after that.  #4, just a couple of days back, happened while I was watching a baseball game on the TV and sitting in my recliner.   

My understanding of the condition is as JD stated, it is much more related to the physical structure & condition of an individual's eye than to one's activities.  That said, I too will leave the Weatherbys and the like to the younger set.
  
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ACGould
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Re: Rumor or Fact?
Reply #4 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 3:12pm
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Just over two years ago the retina in my right eye became detached.  It was repaired and in the process a plastic band went around the back of the eyeball to somewhat change its shape.  About four months later, the same retina came loose again in another spot.  The first time, I had to stay face down for about two weeks to keep the gas bubble that was placed in the eyeball pressing back against the retina.  The second time he used a silicone oil bubble which did not require the face down recovery but did need a second surgery a few months later to remove it.  The end result was considerable loss of vision in my right eye--it is blurred and distorted to the point that it is of no use reading, watching TV or shooting.  I was unable to master shooting from the left shoulder, so Steve Earle made some offset scope mounts for my externally adjustable Lyman and Unertl scopes so that I can continue to shoot from the right shoulder but sight with my left eye.  I haven't come up with anything yet for iron sights, but am working on it!  I'm 71 years old and haven't shot anything but smallbore rifle and cast bullet Schuetzen and CBA matches since my mid-30's.  My retinal surgeon told me that my situation was typical of most retinal detachments--a senior citizen, a history of floaters and very near sighted.  He knows that I'm a shooter and gave me not cautions about shooting anything.
Cheers,
Leon (AKA "Blinky")
  
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DonH
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Re: Rumor or Fact?
Reply #5 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 3:55pm
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ACGould wrote on Jun 6th, 2008 at 3:12pm:
 The end result was considerable loss of vision in my right eye--it is blurred and distorted to the point that it is of no use reading, watching TV or shooting.  Cheers,
Leon (AKA "Blinky")


What prompted this thread is that I cannot afford ANY  further loss of vision. Some doctors would probably like me to wear safety glasses to watch TV. Of late, the heaviest recoiling rifle I shoot is a BP 45-70. Not like a .458, .378, etc and not painful to shoot but there is sufficient recoil velocity to leave me with a pretty intense headache after a match. Currently, I have an area of scarred retinal tissue which is shrinking and  "bunching" and trying to pull loose which could cause tearing or further detaching of the retina. This has me thinking about precautionary measures. Have already switched from right to left side shooting.   
  
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Slowshooter
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Re: Rumor or Fact?
Reply #6 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 6:39pm
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Leon and I have had very similar experiences, but since I'm his senior (uh, not in age, but my retina finally detached 3 years and 3 months ago), thought I should put my experience down for you.  Waterman, best put yourself under a good retinal surgeon's care asap regarding the retinal tears.

I experienced a retinal tear in my right eye (I'm right handed, of course), this was repaired, though I was left with a large amoeba, (cloud of debris) floating in and out of my line of sight.  1 1/2 months later, I awoke to find a black cloud obscuring my vision.  The surgeon said the tear had extended, and broke a blood vein (a retinal hemorage).  He repaired that, and said the blood would be absorbed into the system, and sure enough, it cleared about a month later.  The surgeon said all looked well, and he would be releasing me in two or three weeks.  Within two weeks, I suffered a detached retina.
My retinal surgeon had, unfortunately, injured his back skiing, and passed me on to another well respected doctor who reattached the retina with a foam band.   

Both of my doctors, as well as my optometrist, told me that the condition leading to the tear and detachment was a result of a deterioration of the eye as part of the aging process.  Since I was 59 at the time, that made me feel JUST GREAT!  All know about my shooting activities, and all said that was not what precipitated the event.  HOWEVER, my final doctor said I should stay away from shooting anything which might cause another detachment.  Voluntarily, I even quite shooting my 32-40's.  Why?  When you only have one good eye left, you tend to want it to last a loooong time!   

Like Leon, the vision in my right eye isn't good for much of anything except preventing my wife from sneeking up on me.  Recovery, after the re-attachment, was complicated by inflamation, scaring of the macula, cataract formation, and, of course, my pet amoeba is still floating around in there.

I went the lefty route to allow use of the iron sights.  Benchrest has come back pretty well, but don't know if I'll ever get my offhand back.  My efforts for the first 2 years were limited to .22 LR, but the last 6 months I've been shooting my brother's 28-30 which surprisingly has a lot less push than the 32-40's.  Eventually, I will get my 25-21 finished, and plan to stick with it for the centerfire events.   

Jerry

PS  Leon and I feel we belong to a very rare group: both schuetzen shooters, both with the right eye problem, and even both from the same area.  This is not a exclusive group that we are happy to belong to!!
  
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MerwinBray
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Re: Rumor or Fact?
Reply #7 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 8:59pm
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I think it time I see an eye doctor. Have had floaters for about 10 yrs. Eyes started to go fuzzy last year after a stomach biopsy, and last weekend discovered I can no longer focus on horizontal cross hairs in a scope. 
Are floaters always an indicator of retina problems?
Merwin
  

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Brent
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Re: Rumor or Fact?
Reply #8 - Jun 6th, 2008 at 10:50pm
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Quote:
[quote author=ACGould link=1212746333/0#4 date=1212779525]  What prompted this thread is that I cannot afford ANY  further loss of vision. Some doctors would probably like me to wear safety glasses to watch TV. Of late, the heaviest recoiling rifle I shoot is a BP 45-70.


This sounds like the PERFECT excuse for a new rifle.  Pherpas one of the .38s?  A 40 if you must.  While I would not like to be in the same position, I would milk it for a new rifle or three.   

What is that about silver linings?  Wink Wink
Brent

  
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Re: Rumor or Fact?
Reply #9 - Jun 8th, 2008 at 9:51am
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I have had retinal surgery in both eyes (as well as having both lenses replaced). I specifically asked my ophthalmologist if heavy recoiling rifles could cause a detached retina. He stated that in his opinion, the answer was no. He stated it could be caused by a direct blow on the eyeball but not recoil against the body (shoulder).

Of course, if you only have one eye left, you might take this answer with a grain of salt. My doctor is with the Cincinnati Eye Institute, probably the foremost eye surgery clinic in this part of the U.S.

FWIW
Dale53
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Rumor or Fact?
Reply #10 - Jun 8th, 2008 at 10:45am
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Don, 
From a kinesthetic standpoint, I would think that recoil, which basically impacts the shoulder and and upper body would not have much effect on the head; the flexibility of the neck would prevent the recoil from impacting the head (unless of course you were working on a Weatherby eyebrow).   that is if shooting from an offhand or benchrest or kneeling position.

  Now if you are talking about prone shooting it might be a different story. I have no experience at that aspect of the sport

When I first started ASSRA my rifle was a light weight sporter 45-70. I was shooting 500 grain bullets and heavy loads of 5744--painful shooting but it was the most accurate.  After 3 or 4 days of match bench shooting I'd have a real colorful shoulder but no headaches.   I suspect that in shooting prone the recoil distribution is different and it may be more likely to effect the neck and head.  Since you mentioned headaches after shooting your BP 45-70 I'd guess that there is some sort of cause-effect at work.  In the interest of preserving your remaining vision I'd very much err on the side of caution if it were me.

Just out of curiosity, does the NRA have any sort of data on the medical aspects of shooting, other than self-defense shootings and weight-reduction via lightened wallets.   Perhaps too the serious shotgunner who compete at high levels might have data on recoil and retna damage.
  

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13Echo
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Re: Rumor or Fact?
Reply #11 - Jun 8th, 2008 at 2:06pm
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A very large percentage of retinal detachments are spontaneous and have no relationship to trauma.  Unless you are already predisposed to retinal detachment such that it is going to happen and it's just a matter of when the type firearms most of us shoot aren't going to cause or even precipitate such an injury.  If the recoil really snaps your head or the stock is of such poor design that it really socks you in the chops or you earn a Weatherby eyebrow it might precipitate a detachment.  I suspect the recoil of the 577 Tyrannosaurus and similar light shoulder howitzers could do the trick.  But, even then, it would be in someone with a predispostion.  Of course there are always anecdotal exceptions.   

I guess the best advice is what DWS just gave, if you have a known problem err on the side of caution.

Jerry Liles
  
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DonH
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Re: Rumor or Fact?
Reply #12 - Jun 9th, 2008 at 6:05am
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My diminished vision is due to an area of scar tissue on the retina from an injury in my life. Doc (retina surgeon) says the scar tissue is shrinking and "puckering" and thus pulling away from the rear wall of the globe. He says the shrinking is most likely caused by aging. If it continues, it can tear the retina around it. My original question resulted from wondering what effect recoil might have since there is already apparently some loosening. Likely it would be prudent to shoot only .22 RFs but how much fun is that?
I see a bug shot at Midwest Eye Institute 7 July. I have had a surgery by him before and his "creds" are among the best in the country. Since he is an Ivy Leaguer he is probably against shooting anyway.
  
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