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sharps54
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Am I blind? or Do I already have the my CF action?
Jun 3rd, 2008 at 11:09am
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Once of the rifles that I have just sitting around is a Sportco Martini in 22LR. You know, the ones that only have a Kangaroo stamp on the top of the receiver. It is not in the best shape (I'll get photos up tonight or maybe tomorrow) and I never gave it much thought. I finally got around to researching it this morning to find out they were built off 310 Cadet actions and found a post here about converting it back to centerfire. I have been wanting to build a small bore centerfire rifle for Schuetzen and this brings up a few questions:

1) Would this be considered a traditional rifle? I know ASSRA doesn't require it but for example would it qualify for the "Quarterbore Corps"?

2) Considering the fact I am "cash challenged" and have this in hand is this a realistic action to build a low pressure small bore Schuetzen on?

3) Recomendations on calibers? If this is considered a "traditional" action then I would want a traditional caliber, possibly a 25-20 SS, 25-21, or 32-20. I would also consider 30-20 with this set up. 

4) Breech seaters, anyone have one for a small frame Martini? Would I be able to just do a cartridge case with a "knob" sticking out the back that I use to "push" the bullet into place?

5) Are there questions I should be asking that I am not thinking of?

I was going to put together a T/C Contender carbine in .22 and a small centerfire for offhand use until I could save up the money for a proper rifle but if I can build a centerfire rifle off this I would rather put the money into it. I have a BSA International .22 that already covers my rimfire needs... 

Thanks in advance!
  
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38_Cal
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Re: Am I blind? or Do I already have the my CF act
Reply #1 - Jun 3rd, 2008 at 11:27am
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I've been building on small Martini actions for some time, usually starting with the 12/15 thick side rimfire action.  Depending on how your action was converted to rimfire, it may be an easy re-conversion.  The thick side actions have an advantage over the Cadet actions, as they can hold a bigger diameter barrel better, though the threads are the same size.  Why don't you send a PM and with your regular email address and I'll send some photos of my 12/15 chambered for .38 Ballard XL for breech seated bullets.  (.357 Max. cases, full length.)   

I would suggest looking at 25-20 Winchester from the brass availability angle.  .25 caliber is correct for small Martini rifles, as you find some in 297/250.   

David Kaiser
Montezuma, IA

  

David Kaiser
Montezuma, IA
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sharps54
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Re: Am I blind? or Do I already have the my CF act
Reply #2 - Jun 3rd, 2008 at 11:36am
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PM inbound!
  
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sharps54
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Re: Am I blind? or Do I already have the my CF act
Reply #3 - Jun 3rd, 2008 at 12:18pm
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I have been searching the internet and it looks like the answer to #1 is yes it predates 1917 so for WSU rules the Cadet is "traditional" but it isn't legal for "Quarter Bore Corps" matches because they aren't American.
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Am I blind? or Do I already have the my CF act
Reply #4 - Jun 3rd, 2008 at 1:51pm
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Well...  Peabody made Martini's in the US.  Granted, they were large actions, but still...
  
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sharps54
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Re: Am I blind? or Do I already have the my CF act
Reply #5 - Jun 3rd, 2008 at 3:50pm
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MartiniBelgian wrote on Jun 3rd, 2008 at 1:51pm:
Well...  Peabody made Martini's in the US.  Granted, they were large actions, but still...


Even so it's OK if it doesn't qualify for the quarter bore match. I understand the idea behind thier rules and have no problems with them. The fact it would meet WSU's traditional class is good enough for me. Now the question is how much is this "discovery" going to cost me and what caliber should I go with? Cheesy
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Am I blind? or Do I already have the my CF act
Reply #6 - Jun 3rd, 2008 at 4:48pm
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FWIW,
I have one in 30-20, rebarreled using a take-off .308 Palma match barrel, and it performs quite well - certainly for the investment made.  A very versatile round indeed, it can be used as gallery rifle with 110gr pistol-style ammo, but also as a higher-powered rifle, loaded up with 155gr Sierra BTHP Palma bullets (yes, I know - not cast), both for prone and offhand work.  I know I like mine!
  
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RJM
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Just a question:
Reply #7 - Jun 16th, 2008 at 7:50am
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Why don't we see short .32's, like a Miller, in a small martini? 

I would think it would be perfect for a rechambered cadet, except for needing a breech seater and requiring lighter bullets because of the slow twist.

Regards, Ron
  
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1878
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Re: Am I blind? or Do I already have the my CF act
Reply #8 - Jun 16th, 2008 at 8:31pm
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I think you have already hit on it: the cartridges like the .32 Miller Short, 32-357, 32RKS and so on are almost exclusively breech-seating cartridges, and it is difficult to do that with a small Martini.  38_Cal has succeeded in making a usable seater and has a post on the subject in the gunsmithing section.  But many shooters are still used to the better chamber and bore access of other action types.  From a size and strength standpoint I think the cartridges mentioned would be ok and the price of small Martini actions is certainly attractive.
  
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1878
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Re: Am I blind? or Do I already have the my CF act
Reply #9 - Jun 16th, 2008 at 8:40pm
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What I wonder about is whether you could just chamber one for .357 Magnum (fixed ammo) and use a barrel twist and throat appropriate for 200+ grain bullets.  Has anyone done it?  I know many small Martinis have been converted to American pistol cartridges, but I think the idea there was more carbine than target rifle.
  
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38_Cal
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Re: Am I blind? or Do I already have the my CF act
Reply #10 - Jun 16th, 2008 at 8:47pm
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I was given a couple of .32 Miller cases a while back, and found that their capacity is within one grain of my Starline 32-20 brass.  Advantage to the 32-20, you can use a .30 caliber barrel (including good takeoffs in any of the .30 caliber cartridges) and there's bunches of molds available, most of which are a snap to convert to plain base.  My .30 caliber 32-20 on a Ruger No. 3 action uses a 12" twist, and shoots better than I can with a modified RCBS 30-180SP, that in almost pure lead weighs about 190 gr.

David
Montezuma, IA

  

David Kaiser
Montezuma, IA
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