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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Ballard #2, Cast or Forged? (Read 16758 times)
thop
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Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Apr 17th, 2008 at 8:02pm
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From what I can tell from reading many of the excellent posts by Marlinguy and others most (all?) #2 Ballards were built on forged actions.  I finally had an opportunity to pull the forend off my recently acquired rifle to confirm that it had the hollow area under the barrel threads indicative of the forged action.  I thought I would share a picture of it in case anyone had any comments.  I think I was expecting a larger hollow area than what is actually there.  The forearm has a projection that fits into the hole.  Is this indeed a forged action or is possibly a different model?  Serial numbers on the barrel and receiver match and it appears in very good condition.  Bore is "minty", as some collectors like to say.  I haven't had the chance to remove the breach block yet to look for the rough interior of the cast action, but what I can see from with the breach block installed it appears to be relatively smooth.

THOP
  

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leadball
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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #1 - Apr 17th, 2008 at 9:05pm
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thop;
         Dutcher's book on Ballards says, most all #2 ballards are cast frames and a very few are forged frames.  The hollow area below the barrel cannot be seen until the finger lever and breechblock is removed. Hopefully it is a forged action-making it a fairly rare rifle.   leadball
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #2 - Apr 17th, 2008 at 9:07pm
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Thop,  the hole you are looking at is not the hollow being referred to.  In order to see the hollow, you must take the breechblock and lever assembly out and look forward under the barrel tenon.   

Also, the hollow is a characteristic of the cast, not the forged action.  All of the #2s I have seen did indeed have the hollow and were indeed cast, FWIW.

Don't look for the inside of a cast action to have large pits and craters, it just is not all machined surfaces since the non-bearing areas could be cast in.  Hope all of this is of help to you identifying your Ballard.

Green Frog
  
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1878
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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #3 - Apr 17th, 2008 at 9:09pm
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Wrong end!  Drop the block with the lever and look (from the rear) at the area under the barrel in the frame.  A forged action has a solid sloping surface running down to the bottom.  The cast frame has a hollow you could stick the end of you thumb in down there.  (Of course you would have to take the block out to actually do that).  Once you know what to look for it's easy to see.  I don't know anything about casting, but I think the hollow allows for more even cooling, I doubt if they were saving metal or weight.
  
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1878
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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #4 - Apr 17th, 2008 at 9:16pm
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Well I see a couple of regulars also replied while I was writing, and I don't have one at hand to check, but I think you can see enough to tell without removing the breechblock.  
  
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thop
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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #5 - Apr 17th, 2008 at 11:40pm
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Thanks everyone for your prompt response.  I'll drop the block when I get a chance and confirm it but I suspect your right and it is cast.  Thanks for directing me in the right direction.   

THOP
  

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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #6 - Apr 18th, 2008 at 12:25am
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cast and forged
  

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thop
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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #7 - Apr 18th, 2008 at 8:24am
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Great pictures Westerner.  The cavity is very clear in the picture and I can see the difference in the machined recess and the roughness of the cast action.  It looks like some welding on the forged action.  Did it develop a crack that is being repaired?  Thanks again for the pictures.

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mwhite49
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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #8 - Apr 18th, 2008 at 9:35am
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The quick way to tell that has so far worked for me is that all forged actions seem to just have a two line address and the cast actions have a three line address. 
Mike
  
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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #9 - Apr 18th, 2008 at 5:13pm
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The forged action was a 45/70. It was blown in half with a load of straight black powder.  It is beleived that one half of a seperated case lodge in the barrel.  It was welded back together  to be used for a sanding fixture, etc. The cast action is my old Parkenfarker Ballard. It cracked down the side that is riddled with holes and brazed over and plated.  It was 32/40. I was shooting fixed black powder loads.   

                                                     Joe.
  

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mwhite49
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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #10 - Apr 18th, 2008 at 5:35pm
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Westener, now that brings up a good point. It makes one wonder just what type of presure one needs to blow one of these. I'm like you, I would have to say something was in the barrel or chamber to due that much damage. 
Mike
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #11 - Apr 18th, 2008 at 5:50pm
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mwhite49 wrote on Apr 18th, 2008 at 9:35am:
The quick way to tell that has so far worked for me is that all forged actions seem to just have a two line address and the cast actions have a three line address. 
Mike


That system has flaws. I own a cast (*edit-forged) action with three line adress. (Edited! oops!)-Vall
« Last Edit: Apr 19th, 2008 at 4:20pm by marlinguy »  
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thop
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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #12 - Apr 18th, 2008 at 7:21pm
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I took a the opportunity to pull the breach block on my #2 today and confirm that it is a cast receiver and look for the serial numbers.  I confirmed it is indeed a cast action as the attached pics will attest.  I was also pleasantly surprised all the parts had matching serial numbers.  Now I just need to put to work all of the great information I received from everyone and build some 38 cartridges.  Thanks to everyone for their input.
THOP
  

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mwhite49
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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #13 - Apr 18th, 2008 at 11:57pm
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Hi Marlin Guy, I thought I said that - a cast action is a three line adress and a forged action is a two line adress always, It would be a rare item to find a forged action with a three line adress and you will never find a cast action with a two line adress, or so I have been told by numerous Ballard folks.
Mike
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard #2, Cast or Forged?
Reply #14 - Apr 19th, 2008 at 4:17pm
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Sorry mwhite49,
My dislexic brain turned that around. But I'm still going to stick with it being flawed. The #2 I have is a forged frame, with centerfire only breechblock, all matching numbers, but a three line address. It is chambered for .32 Ballard extra Long, and has double set triggers. It's a very early JM Marlin Ballard.
Generally speaking it is true that forged will have two line addresss, and cast will have three, but there are always exceptions. When I bought this #2 it was advertised as a #4 Perfection, but John Dutcher identified it as a special order #2 with forged frame.
  
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