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flapsb52
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Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Apr 2nd, 2008 at 10:54am
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Good Day All,
   This is my first time posting so bear with me.  I am trying to gather as much information about a rifle I am purchasing.  It is a single shot Merwin and Hulbert Junior Model in 32 WCF.  The barrel length is 26 inches and the only markings I could see were on top of the barrel they are as follows:
  Made by hopkins & Allen manfg Norwich Conn USA The MerwinHubert & co Junior Pat,d June 23 1885
  There is a 32 WCF marking between the rear sight and the breech as well.
  It is a takedown model with the takedown lug on the right side of the receiver.  The lug has a straight metal pin running through it (not sure if original).  The front sight is a blade and the rear is I think a buckhorn that is adjustable for elevation.  The butt has a steel crescent style butt plate.  Finally I have not found a serial number but I have not taken it apart yet either.
  I am looking for as much information as I can get be they pictures or reference books/articles.  All the material I have found in the usual guides is very limited and not very detailed.  Probably because it is not really considered a collectable like the majority of the rifles written about in all your posts, but something about this rifle spoke to me when I first saw it.
  Sorry for the long winded post.  I hope you might be able to give me a hand.  V/R
Eric  Smiley   
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #1 - Apr 2nd, 2008 at 8:06pm
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I would recommend you get a copy of DeHaas' book "Single Shot Rifles and Actions". It has a pretty good section on H&A firearms, and will get you headed in the right direction to ID which model it is 
Once you've determined the model, then check out Grant's books on single shot rifles.
  
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ACGould
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #2 - Apr 2nd, 2008 at 8:06pm
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Hi Eric,
Your rifle was made by Hopkins and Allen.  Davinport, Bay State, Hopkins and Allen  and Merwin & Hulbert were, from time to time very closely related in terms of location, production, ownership and/or management.  To the best of my knowledge, most, M&H firearms were made by H&A.  You might have better results looking in your references under "Hopkins and Allen".  You will for sure find lots of detail, history and pictures in James Grant's "Boys' Single-Shot Rifles", where there are cuts of early catalogs showing the full line of M&H branded rifles. If you don't have a copy, it may be available at your local public library via inter-library loan.
Good luck,
Leon 
  
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flapsb52
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #3 - Apr 3rd, 2008 at 11:52am
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All,
   Thank You for your quick posts and the great information.  I will try to track down the suggested books to help identify my rifle better.  From reading the standard pricing/value guides Hopkins and Allens are not really looked on as great collectables from what I can determine.  Not sure if the Merwin and Hulbert adds something.  I know it does with the revolvers, but from my understanding the revolvers were built at the H&K factory but with M&W tooling and oversite.  I am not sure if the same holds true for the rifles.
   Anyhow with that all said the collectability portion is not the main reason I was interested in the rifle.  Hopefully it will be a good shooter.  Have to see when it arrives.  I am new to the whole single shot shooting scene and trying to figure out all the aspects of the sport.
   Once again Thanks!
V/R
Eric Smiley
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #4 - Apr 3rd, 2008 at 8:33pm
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Although the average H&A sporting rifles don't bring the prices of other big name singleshots, there were some models that do! The schuetzen style H&A's bring pretty good prices. I saw one sell in Reno last weekend for over $2,000, and although it was in nice shape, it sure wasn't minty.-Vall
  
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #5 - Apr 3rd, 2008 at 8:38pm
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Hello: I have a Merwin & Hulbert that sounds like yours. Mine came with 32-20 and 16ga barrels but it is missing the buttstock. Sure would like a pic of yours sometime. Thanks,  Dan
  
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flapsb52
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #6 - Apr 4th, 2008 at 12:21am
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Dan,
   When I get the rifle (waiting for it to arrive) I will try and get some pictures posted.  Mine did not come with the shotgun barrel but I did read somewhere that, that was an option or standard practice, not too sure on that.  I did find another post on this site about another Merwin and Hulbert that had some good info and pics, although there are differences between that rifle and mine.
   Does yours have the takedown lug on the right side of the receiver?  If so is there a straight metal pin through it or a ring?  All the pictures I have been able to find of these types of rifles have had a ring.   
V/R
Eric
  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #7 - Apr 4th, 2008 at 1:12am
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I believe the Hopkins and Allen Junior which had the ring set screw coming in from the side and marketed by Merwin and Hulbert was the early small frame model.  They came in the usual rimfires up to .38 and also in .32 WCF.  I have the remains of one of the latter myself, a barreled receiver I've been slowly collecting parts for.

After a fire destroyed the factory and M&H went out of business, the Hopkins and Allen Company was reorganized, the factory was rebuilt, and the Junior was revived, as the 922/1922 and 932/1932 series, in .22 and .32 rimfires only.  The ring set screw for this version was at the bottom of the receiver, in front of the lever.  The medium frame with the lever set screw coming in from the side was chambered for these and also for the larger centerfires up to .38-55 and .44-40 shot cartridges.

If yours is indeed the smallest frame version in .32 WCF, I would suggest you stick to black powder loadings if you are going to shoot it.
  
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flapsb52
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #8 - Apr 4th, 2008 at 10:01am
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Brent,
  Thanks for the information.  It is amazing the amount of information available via this forum.  I am glad I found this site.
  As for shooting I sure would like to but I will have to determine once I receive the rifle and give it a thorough examination.   
  My question is since I am new to this is if I do decide to shoot it would the modern CAS loads work or would the pressure still be to much for the 100 + year old gun?
V/R
Eric
  
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flapsb52
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #9 - Apr 4th, 2008 at 10:04am
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Sorry, Typo I meant Bent
V/R
Eric Smiley
  
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #10 - Apr 4th, 2008 at 4:38pm
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Flapsb52,

That I don't know.  I hear that the CAS loads are pretty minimal, but I've never fired any myself.  You'd have to get the gun checked out by somebody who could make a better determination.  I haven't gotten to the point where mine is anywhere near ready to shoot, but it does seem a little dainty for at least some loadings of the .32-20 I've shot.  A few years back, somebody on one of these shooting sites rechambered a .22 small frame H&A 922 to .22 RF Magnum and pounded the breechblock and shoulders into an unsafe headspace condition in only a few shots.  The actions are mostly castings, and the fitting of the block in the mortise is often not that great.  I think he described his experience as peening the high spots off the fit, leaving things pretty loose and sloppy.

As a reloader, if the gun looked shootable, I'd start down at .32 Colt and .32 S&W loads and slowly go up.  Black powder might be more forgiving than smokeless, in this size frame.

If it is the medium frame, and in good condition, it should handle the lower-levels of .32-20 power.  I have three medium frames, one relined to .22 RF, one in .32 RF/CF and one in .38-55 shot.  I've shot the .22 the most, but the .38-55 I used to shoot a fair amount and no problems resulted from 5 to 6.5 gr of Unique ahead of 2 wads and maybe 1/3 oz of shot.

I checked the barrel on my Junior, it is 26" or a trifle over, if you count the chamber in the length.
  
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #11 - Apr 4th, 2008 at 4:52pm
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Flapsb52,

That I don't know.  I hear that the CAS loads are pretty minimal, but I've never fired any myself.  You'd have to get the gun checked out by somebody who could make a better determination.  I haven't gotten to the point where mine is anywhere near ready to shoot, but it does seem a little dainty for at least some loadings of the .32-20 I've shot.  A few years back, somebody on one of these shooting sites rechambered a .22 small frame H&A 922 to .22 RF Magnum and pounded the breechblock and shoulders into an unsafe headspace condition in only a few shots.  The actions are mostly castings, and the fitting of the block in the mortise is often not that great.  I think he described his experience as peening the high spots off the fit, leaving things pretty loose and sloppy.

As a reloader, if the gun looked shootable, I'd start down at .32 Colt and .32 S&W loads and slowly go up.  Black powder might be more forgiving than smokeless, in this size frame.

If it is the medium frame, and in good condition, it should handle the lower-levels of .32-20 power.  I have three medium frames, one relined to .22 RF, one in .32 RF/CF and one in .38-55 shot.  I've shot the .22 the most, but the .38-55 I used to shoot a fair amount and no problems resulted from 5 to 6.5 gr of Unique ahead of 2 wads and maybe 1/3 oz of shot.

I checked the barrel on my Junior, it is 26" or a trifle over, if you count the chamber in the length.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #12 - Apr 4th, 2008 at 7:52pm
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I had a medium framed &A chambered for .38 XL Shot. It was a smoothbore, which used the long .38XL case. I used .357 mag brass, and the old Speer shot capsules with a few grains of Unique. It was fun to shoot.
  
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #13 - Apr 5th, 2008 at 8:47pm
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I shoot my 32WCF medium frame with a full case of Goex COWBOY black powder, and a .315 120 grain bullet cast of 20-1 lubed with SPG and a small pistol primer to light it off. It has been shot a couple of hundred times with no issues. moodyholler
  
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flapsb52
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Re: Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins & Allen Single Shot
Reply #14 - Apr 6th, 2008 at 10:30pm
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All,
   Thanks for all the great information.  My rifle arrived yesterday and it is superb.  I am far from an expert and know little about grading but to me it is great.  I will try and get some pictures posted shortly.  Not sure if I will shoot it as I am afraid I might muck it up.  I took it to our local gun show, sponsored by the Ark-La Tex Gun Collectors Society, today and it sure garnered a lot of attention.  Not a big area for single shots so it was kind of a novelty.  I will work on the pictures.
V/R
Eric Smiley
  
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