He comments about "space-aging" certain aspects of single shot activity.

In 1989 I started Schuetzen shooting with a Miller actioned rifle. A few years later I "saw the light" re: history, culture, etc., and made the switch to traditional equipment. I've never looked back.

Thanks Bob, for the fine message.

Fred

p.s. Article by ASSRA VP Bob Carow

Gentlemen,

Not liking to stir the pot...but if one would interpret the meaning of Line 1 under Article IV it would seem to suggest  technology cutoff dates of 1865 to 1917. Especially interesting is how the word "preservation" should be interpreted. Line 3 is also very revealing.

Looks to me like the original founders wanted to keep the ASSRA a "Traditional" association. However, this is only my opinion.

I'm sure there will be some comment on this observation.

Gute Ziele,

Steve

And I read:

"of the type developed between the close of the civil war and the onset of WWI."

Of the type.  That to me says a action that works like....

And:
engage in the practice and experimental shooting of single shot rifles. 

Experimental, I trust that means change and advancement in the type of rifles.

And:

ethical conduct at all times and to promote genuine friendliness, tolerance and mutual respect for each other.

Which I read as, no matter what a fellow member shoots and enjoys and is with in the rules, then respect said members choice.

Thats is why the ASSRA needs to adopt matches that do not have the more tradinional compete with some of the more advanced methods and equipment that are with in the rules.

Kind of like, them danged shot gun shooters, blah blah blah, and them danged bench shooters blah blah blah  etc.

We all hang together or we will hang seperately.

It is called what is BEST for the ASSRA as a whole, not for just select interests.

JMHO---in GREAT big letters


I for one am not quite so picky---- a non-bolt action single shot is a single shot PERIOD!!!

To me a Ruger #1 is simply an American made copy of one of the classic british single shots.  A Miller or Peregrine or any one of the modern made singleshots is still a single shot.  How would you fit in a FBW or Clerke action or any of the similar but not parts-interchangible patent paper modern copies.  Even the Browning made "walls"are modified versions of originals  and (I believe) many of the Italian made single shots are not exact duplicates either.
How fine are you willing to split the hair?  we have to be careful lest we "rule" ourselves right into irrelevancy.

F.E:  Hammer or hammerless??? its a deliberately artifical distinction designed to perpetuate a narrowly specific cultural/era/time in a specific game.  pretty much a ship-in-a-bottle type thing since there were hammerless single shots in that time frame. I speculate that if it hadn't been picked up by the NRA as a cash-cow the whole BCPR thing would have peaked a few years back and more liberal run-what-you-brung fun matches a la' Quigley would be more common.
  However, If I wanted to play that game I know the rules going in and wouldn't be whining because my Ruger (or longrange Borchardt--if I had one) wasn't allowed to shoot for competetitive score

sights?  we seldom see a really original optical sight--or even a good copy of one.  even most of our externally adjust scopes are all from the "varmint" era or even later.   I suspect that much of that arguement boils down to aesthetics---IE what I like should be legal and what I don't like should be illegal.
We have iron-sight and any-sight matches and thats a good enough split for me.

Other than that about the only real distinctions I see that make sense would be classes based on BP/smokeless loads.   Even the offhand vrs bench guns are pretty much self limiting since they are two different sub-genres within the Single-shot games we choose to play that have evolved on divergent courses.  If you are really into winning you are not going to try to use a high style schuetzen stocked rifle off a bench rest or try to shoot a benchrest gun in an offhand match.

I'm guessing that being a schuetzenmeister is a pretty demanding and often thankless job.  Setting up and running matches in a safe, fair, and efficient way is probably pretty taxing as it is and getting committment from someone to take up that cross would be even more difficult if rules, classes, awards, scoring etc etc become more complex in the future.

fortunately, at least to my way of thinking, the only person I'm trying to beat is myself.  To me schuetzen and ASSRA shooting are a sport, not my religion.

now I'll let someone else have a turn on the soapbox.
won't you all be glad when we can get back to shooting rather than bull-shooting like this.

What is the reason for allowing shooting jackets? Are they not a costly adjunctive to the sport? And who would deny that they will enhance scores? This is an old question but from time to time it should be discussed. 

Fred

Some years back I went to what was billed as a Schuetzen shoot, air rifles, indoors. At that shoot persons over 60 y.o. were allowed to shoot
from a stand that supported the forearm!

As D.W. says with shooting coats you pays your money you takes your chances. Personally I can't shoot all tied up like a Christmas turkey but others do. I have a vivid memory of Jim McDermott in a shooting coat on a hot and muggy July day at Alabama NY, he was soaked with sweat to the knees and looked like he was going to pass out any second. He shot pretty good though, still it didn't seem like fun. 
On Traditional class as I remember when we adopted the rules for traditional rifles it was with the idea that these rules were for special matches for traditional rifles only. Not to create two different sets of winners for every match. This would double the cost of the awards without adding one new shooter to a match. I can tell you that the cost of awards is not cheap. Instead we decided to be more inclusive and allow all shooters as long as they met the broad criteria that we already have. 

40 Rod

Interesting that you feel the "guns are the dog". I don't recall tennis players talking much about their racquets nor baseball players about their bats. It was always about performance.

fred

Brent, yours is the postion of most of us. We all appreciate the worksmanship, associated history, etc,of fine target rifles. This tread started with appaluse
for Bob Carow's "Message from the Vice President". Then tradtional vs.
contemporary single shots, and then on to the somewhat taboo subject
of shooting jackets. Do the faster lock time of the Miller action and the use of shooting jackets contribute to higher scores? Many years ago as
a farm kid I hang around a 1/2 mile dirt race track. The type of racing
done mostly at that track were what they called midgets. Two types of
engines were used; most common because of a lower cost was the powerplant based on the briefly produced small flathead Ford V8 60 hp. The other
engines were small sophisticated Offenhausers replete with overhead
cams, etc. These cars did not compete directly with each other though
they were on the track at the same time. Performances were not the same. And if we examine the use of shooting jackets should we not compare such with the use of performance-enhancing drugs as so
recently publicized in congressional hearing and the baseball record book?

Fred

glad winter is almost over, and shooting season is just around the corner.. seems every year when it's been a looong winter and cabin fever is at it's worst, we get to nit picking the rules and the opinion of others..

think when  spring finally does come and the first shooting sesion takes place.. all this will go away.. and will be forgotten till the next bout of cabin fever sets in next year..

of course this is just my opion..

..ttfn..grampa..

Lessee, the rifle of my dreams....falling block, electronic ignition, electronic trigger, composite barrel w/ the highest-tech tuner - all in a one-piece glass/kevlar candy apple red BR stock. Whadaya mean, it's still a single shot ain't it? Harry woulda iffn he had one ,right?
Heehee!

DonH, Westerner, What you are saying re: spaceguns, is that theme attributed to the late P.T. Barnum, founder of the American circus. In essence, "you will never lose money underestimating the public's taste".
Excuse me for now, I've got to go watch Montel Williams.

fred

Ya know, there is a small club in southern Wisconsin (Black Earth) that has been having regular 200 yd offhand shooting matchs every month since 1892. Anything is allowed (equipment) and there is a preference for 22rf. Although on any give match there will be single shots, Savage 99s, Winchester 52s, highpower jacketed, etc. The historical pictures show mostly lever guns but some highwalls. Everone enjoys themselves and it is anybodies guess as to the winner (especially on good weather days).

IMHO, the great thing about ASSRA (or was it Coors) are the basic rules: a) plain based bullets only. b) Seasonal clothing. And as far as I am concerned RF and CF should both be allowed. This pretty much sets reasonable limits on equipment. Action type is a matter of preference (I shoot a 44.5 but would rather it a Ballard) with bolt guns being OK. This is the way to get the most people started in the game. Most will move to traditional equipment anyway. And, if you think the other guy beat you because of equipment "you probably woudn't have beat him with equivalent hardware".

Oh, and by the way, they made single shot bolt guns before 1917.

Sorry, but focus on prospective, we do this for the fun and the people.

I shoot a traditional reproduction, In offhand Hudson matches it gives away a few points to a completely modern Schuetzen.  Guessing only 20 total ? The short cases are inherently more accurate and faster lock time/shorter barrels are an advantage. 36x scope is a big advantage too. 

It would be good to be classed separately but can see the problem Schuetzenmasters have, not enough offhand shooters anyway and if you dilute it more your placing in a match becomes irrelevant. Like many of us I shoot for personal satisfaction and if a Modern action rifle outshots me it's no problem.  Makes me feel a bit better when I out shoot them.  Personally the "Race" single shots are interesting but would not want to bring one home to meet the family

Boats

There will always be several trains of thought when it comes to competitive shooting, regardless of what the venue is.
There are those who love the bells and whistles, so they get everything they can, and wrap it up into their shooting box, or rifle to compete. There are also those who just want to shoot with the basics, and seem content to compete with themselves; striving just to get better than they were the week before.
Finally there's me! I just enjoy shooting. Don't care if I shoot better than the week before, or if I shoot better than the guy next to me. I do enjoy shooting old singleshot rifles, but I couldn't care less if they are schuetzen rifles, .22's, or buffalo guns. It's all the same, and it's all fun.