I have one question on this subject, if tuners are not permitted at a shoot! Is a back bored muzzle on a gun permitted?
Just asking for an interpretation or limits of allowed practices.
Thnx Tom

Yanno, I have NEVER had a suggestion for any rules change or anything from a Member in Good standing of the ASSRA, for any kind of discussion at a annual membership meeting.  Sure seems to be all kinds of suggestions on line though.

As written in  the By laws all voting, except changes to the by laws are voted on at the annual meeting at Beeson Range in May during the spring shoot.

Why would there be anybody on the board that never has shown any interest in the assoc or the people.  Sounds odd to me.

A back bored muzzle is simply a barrel that has normal bore/groove dimensions for, say, the first 17" of the barrel and then some larger diameter bore for the remaining distance to the muzzle.  It acts something like a bloop tube giving one the balance and sight radius of a long barrel but the bore-residence time of a short barrel.   

They are historically traditional and thus legal.  Or at least, they were legal.  Who the heck knows what the new rules say?  Bloop tubes are/were not legal.   

Brent

Read the By Laws. ANY member  should know them and the rules in print, so they have a clue what they are talking about.

When we talk of tuners here I assume we are talking about a separate piece or unit, adjustable, which is attached to the barrel at the muzzle for the purpose effecting such  changes to barrel harmonics as to aid accuracy.

Mr. Bill Calfee, who probably knows as much or more than anyone on the subject of tuners, has said that any weight hung on the muzzle of a rifle barrel is in effect a "tuner" as it will to some degree dampen vibrations. According to his thinking ( and he has stated such) a random length of pipe hung on the muzzle is going to do to some degree what a tuner does. A tuner adds weight, but more importantly, allows the shooter to determine how far the max. effect of that weight is loacated ahead of the vibration node of the barrel. One can "tune" a piece of pipe to alter a barrels harmonics with a given ammunition by experimanting with the length of the pipe until the "sweet spot" is found.
My understanding of a "bloop tube" is to mount an extension to the barrel to allow the front sight to be mounted to it, extending sight radius. If that  defines a bloop tube ( and I it is a pretty univesal definition) then a tube added to a scoped rifle is not by definition a "bloop tube". If a bloop tube is legal and a tuner is not then whether a shooter has "tuned" his bloop tube before mounting the sight to it presents a gray area. Except for this last instance, you guyds know the difference.

ARTICLE VI, Section1.0 of the ASSRA Rule Book states, "Proposed changes to these rules shall be submitted in writing to the Vice-President who will then send copies to members of the Match committee. If approved by the committee, the proposed changesshall then be submitted to the Board of Directors and if approved, they shall be accepted as revisions to these match rules. The revised rules will be published in the Journal."There you have it. There is a procedure for propposed changes to match rules so if you all really want a change, put it in writing to the VP. The more letters written, the more attention must be given to  proposals. Be aware though that (to my understanding) association membership will be required fo your input to count; forum membership will not qualify you.

As was stated in an earlier message..... "if they'd of had it back then they'd of used it"..... is an argument that's been going on for years. The Rendezvous people in the NMLRA, & NCOWS, run into this all the time from people who say the same thing.

  What has to be done is to decide what your goals are. If you're shooting the NRA competitions all the modern gadgets you can think of are being used. What the ASSRA, and others, have decided is that they want to keep things as they were during a certain time frame.

  If the ASSRA allows "anything goes" then it's not the ASSRA. Those who want to suggest changes should send them in. According to Keith not many, if any, do. Sounds like a bunch of complaining just for the sake of seeing your name in print on here. If you were serious you'd send your ideas in where it'll do some good. No one on here can change things by themselves.

  As for those ideas that everyone with half an oz. of common sense would know will never bee adopted, why are they even brought up here other than to "stir the pot".

  Come on guys! Get real. We've argued this so many times that it's really getting boring. None of them will be acted on unless you go thru the proper channels. It's that way with any organization, so why should it be different with the ASSRA.

  Don't get me wrong..... I don't especially like the way things have to be done either, but we have to live with it until enuf people decide they'll go to EG and change things.

PETE

If, as a newby here at this forum, and a novice singleshot rifleman, and NOT currently a member of ASSRA, I can express an opinion, then I would say that J.D. Steele's and 40_Rod's most recent comments summarize the issue. Which I would submit has precious little to do with "barrel tuners" and a great deal to do with "who" ASSRA is and "what" ASSRA wants to accomplish or preserve.

As has been pointed out above, other 'historical' organizations have wrestled with "true" and "genuine" and "in the spirit of" and "new-fangled", and ..... Well, you get the picture. Larger organizations, like the NRA, that recognize the unquanitfiable value of recognizing historically important eras, have dealt with these conflicts by broadening the options available to their members that allow a little of "to each his own".

An example with which I have some experience is damascus barreled SxS shotgun competitions. After one gets past the ignorance of "you can't shot damascus barreled waepons" you find that there are damascus-barreled ONLY competitions throughout the nation. The constraints on those competitions are moderately stiff, with the stated intention of maintaining the 'spirit' of the era of damascus barreled shotguns. There is no "confusion" about 'advancing the art' of damascus barrel technology. There is a point to the competitions, and it's not who can shoot the most birds. It is the gathering and associated comraderie of like-minded folks, with a competition thrown in so we don't all stand around shuffling our feet looking for something new to talk about regarding a device that's been out of manufacture for 75 years or more.

On the other hand, there are no restictions that keep a damascus barreled shotgun from competing in the "open", "modern", throw every new gadget you can at it" competitions.

Maybe, and I emphasize that I said MAYBE, the ASSRA could have different kinds of competitions, while still maintaining their core focus - 19th centuryesque gatherings of like-minded folks. "Advancing the art" of schuetzen riflery seems anathema to the basic tenets of ASSRA to me.

One final comment on "technology":

It's the person that wins the shoot, not the rifle.

If it "bothers" you that the guy next to you 'beat' you with his 'scoped' rifle while you chose to use open sights, then I submit the "spirit of the shoot" is not your primary interest.

Paul

 
I don't know what the problem is with having a set of specific, rules, equipment, & guns to shoot ASSRA matches. If you shoot NRA Bullseye pistol you WILL shoot it the way they want you to or you get DQ'd. Same for Hi-Power, and  BP shilouette. You name it and if the NRA plays in it you will play according to their rules. The same goes for any shooting game their is.

Those of you that have shot in registered competition know what I'm saying is the gospel truth. You can argue and whine to your buddies, or on the Forums, till the cows come home but unless you get it past the rules committee it ain't gonna happen. As an NRA lifer since the early 60's we have got to vote for BoD, and changes in the rules...... But only those people the BoD puts before us, and only on those rules the BoD wants us to.

  Everybody whines about how we need more members. The ASSRA will die if we don't. All I can say is you guys haven't been in the ASSRA very long then. They've been saying the same thing since the late 70's I know of and they're still here. And from what I gather ever since the organization was founded.

  So I really can't see why all the hassle here. If you want rule changes run for the BoD, or if they have one, rules committee. I'm sure the ASSRA would welcome you to serve. Then you can try and get all the changes you want.

PETE