I have read about this over and over, but I still can't understand why there aren't safety issues with having the bullet base a fraction of an inch off the powder, using black. How can this be consistently safe and accurate if it is never safe to have air space in a conventionally loaded BP cartridge? Why isn't this like seating a ball off the powder in a muzzleloader? Why doesn't this ring chambers or worse? What am I missing? Thanks for any explanations.

BillOregon,

  This idea comes over from the ML'ing game. There it's absolutely verboten to have an air space. Now why it doesn't seem to matter in breech seating or a cartridge I don't know, but that's the way it is. In breech seating there can be as much as 1/2" between the OP wad and the base of the bullet. The best load for my .38/55 runs pretty close to this.

  If you will read the old literature, especially the reprints of Shooting & Fishing, you'll see where a lot of the CF cartridges were downloaded for specific purposes. Most people couldn't afford 1/2 a doz. guns so they reduced powder charges, sometimes to as much as half a case. IIRC the .25/20SS takes about 20 grs. of 3F BP. In S&F mention is made of loading down to 14 grs. for Squirrel and Rabbit shooting.

  But downloading does not give you the best accuracy. It's just adequate for short range. Most of the smaller calibers and all the larger ones pretty well require that you compress the powder charge. Sometimes quite a bit. If you'll read up on BP Shilouette shooting you'll see what I'm talking about.

  All you have to remember is that ML'ing and cartridge BP shooting are two entirely different games and they have their own rules that apply to them only.

Bill,

  You're right and I did point out that the best accuracy shooting BP in fixed ammo you have to compress the powder. Even when we breech seat bullets there will be AT LEAST a 1/16" or more of air space between the end of the case and the base of the bullet if the case is filled to the mouth of the case. I have also found that some compression is needed for best accuracy and that only increases the air space. as I mentioned about 3/8" in my .38/55 Wall.

  I, and many others have shot virtually tens of thousands of rounds with an air space and as far as I know no one can say this has caused ringing of the chamber or barrel.

  The following I'm taking on trust, as it was reported by Charlie Dell in his book, since I don't use this method at all. It is claimed that using SMOKELESS powder you can ring a chamber if when breech seating you don't leave the OP wad about .150" - .200" off the powder charge. To explain, if you don't know. Some shooters, when breech seating, will put a wad down in the case to prevent the powder from spilling into the chamber when inserting the case. A mess if it's ever happened to you. My method has always been to put a wad in the mouth of the case and tip the rifle up to settle the powder consistently.

greetings,
shortly after ww11,  i had attended schuetzen matches with my mentor.. don't remember anyone that used black to use a full case of powder..

think the full case law was started by some whipper snapper writer then picked up by other whipper snapper writers..

never did trust whipper snappers, try not to be a whipper snapper. SWARSHBUCKLERS ARE BETTER.. TRY TO BE A SWARSHBUCKLER..

..ttfn..grampa..

Martini,

Quote:


  News to me! Are you basing this on your experimenting or have you read this somewhere?

Good morning, Board;

So far as I'm concerned, the myth about having to have a full case of powder came from Garbe & Venturing's book.  That's NOT what they said, but I have heard a number of folks quoting them as saying that you should never use less than a full case of powder.  That seems to have morphed into, "less than a full case will blow you all to .......".

Hog wash.

I have used as little as 40 grains of FFg in a .45-70 with 325 and 400 grain bullets looking for a reduced chicken load.  Accuracy was a sometimes thing.  For some loads, I could get pretty good accuracy by tilting the muzzle up to position the powder in the case.  All in all it wasn't worth the trouble.

When I shoot less than a full case of powder, I don't use wads.  If the wads were to come loose and back up from the bullet, I think you could sure 'nuff have problems.

Y'all be good.

horsefly