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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Postal Matches (Read 37183 times)
KAF
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Postal Matches
Mar 13th, 2008 at 7:23pm
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Ok new thread.

I have sent a request to the other board members asking if I'd have backing from them to try to find a Postal Match Director/ PSM. (Postal Scheutzenmeister).

I have sent out some feelers to folks I think would do a good job of promoting and trying to keep the postal matches alive and even try a trial for a Bench Rest Postal Match that everybody could get involved in.
CF Postals at 100 yds and 200 Yds, why not try it.

The dates would have to be determined that would take in the North and South shooters. Southern clubs don't shoot much outdoors in the summer I have learned.

Anyway, it is being worked on.

The 100 yd centerfire Offhand and the 50 Ft Offhand postals are already in the rule book so getting them going wouldn't be to tough.

Ok the fire is lit, lets here the rants.

Keith
  
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boats
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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #1 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 8:16am
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KAF

From past experience with postals.  If the rules require 2 or 3 shooters at the same time and cross witnessing of targets there is little reason to run a postal. It's just a normal Schuetzen shoulder to shoulder match.

If the intent is to provide match shooting opportunities to isolated shooters self witnessing and mail in like CBA rules is the way to go.

It all depends on what you want to do.  At the shoulder to shoulder matches I shoot there is little time for a new course of fire.  I would shoot individual postals by my self and mail in the targets if the match was offered.  I have to drive at least 200 miles for a Schuetzen match. some are 500 miles. 

We shoot all summer long.

Boats
  
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tenx
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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #2 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 9:48am
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Keith,

  I couldn't agree more than what boats has said.

  There were many years I couldn't shoot the ASSRA Postal League due to the fact that there were no witnesses and I didn't want to cheat by having the "truck stop waitress" sign them for me.

  Keep it simple! Everyone shoots on the honor system. It works for the WSU Winter League. You don't even have to charge to enter. Buy your own targets. You can send them in if you'd like but the WSU just has you send in the scores.

  I know! The argument is that there will be to much cheating if you don't tighten everything up till it squeaks. Doesn't seem to be that way with the WSU League. Like I've always said...... If I want to cheat I can do it while you're watching me and you'll never know I was doing it. If these postal matches were for some national championship it might be different, but all these matches are is to have fun.

  The big problem with SS shooting is that most of the guys don't live close to a club, or other individuals so they can get together. That was my buddies and I situation till about 9 yrs. ago when we formed our club. It's also the same reason the CBA Postals are such a success. Everybody has access to a 100 yd. range so postals are just the ticket for those single shooters.
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #3 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 10:13am
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tenx wrote on Mar 14th, 2008 at 9:48am:
Keith,

 Keep it simple! Everyone shoots on the honor system. ...
.


Yes!

It's obvious if someone shoots 250's on postals and only 124's at shoulder to shoulder matches what's going on.

  

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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #4 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 10:41am
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Tenx and I are in complete agreement. I have shoot a lot of CBA's postals. They have it down pat. The fact that nobody shoots ASSRAs should be an indication it needs to be re-engineered

Boat
  
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KAF
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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #5 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 10:42am
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I have been looking at the rules for ASSRA Postal Matches.

I have yet to see anywhere that any witnesses were to attend the shooting.

These have been around a long time.

People do need to learn the rules for any matches.

Where is the witness stuff?
  
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boats
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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #6 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 12:36pm
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Witnesses are required to check scoring and addition. I shot the match and submitted the target with a statement that it was fired alone. Scoring and addition checked but by a non attending witness the next day, the target was rejected.  I should say assume rejected since I never heard back and saw nothing published on results. Possible it was accepted but the entire match was not scored. Might have been a Schuetzenmaster problem. Can't recall who it was at the time.

This was a long time ago however, It's not important now, but we do need rules that allow isolated competitors to submit targets. Results must be posted too. The verbiage in our rule  book could be cleaned up somewhat.

Boats
  
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KAF
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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #7 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 4:20pm
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The witness thing to me reads as a self check thing, I see where it has to be signed or notarized.

BY NO means do the statements of the current SM speak for me.

I feel most people are honest no matter what the prize is. I guess I see it as I also  do.

I have had two replies from the board so far, both to the positive side of the postals.

THERE WILL be postals promoted as stated in the rule booklet, and I am hoping to have the Bench postals also!!!!  In spite of some.
Even if I have to do it!!!!!!!!!

If I sounded offensive in my earlier post, it was not meant to be that way. Apologies.

Section 1.10   ASSRA .22 Caliber Postal Match
 
100 shot, .22 Rimfire at 50 feet, Offhand, no slings, any non-bolt action single shot rifle, any sights. Targets must be returned and postmarked before May 30. entry fee is payable in US funds, sent to the Schuetzenmeister or designated Postal Match director. Competitors must be ASSRA members.
 
Section 1.11   ASSRA 100 Shot 100 Yard Centerfire Offhand Postal 
   Match
 
100 shot Match fired on ten #1 targets. Targets to be fired on any100 yard range, ASSRA members witnesses are not required except to check scoring and addition. Targets must be obtained from and returned to the Schuetzenmeister or designated Postal Match Director. Fees are payable in U.S. funds to be sent with request for targets. Targets to be returned to the Schuetzenmeister no later than July 31. Winners to be announced at the Fall Match. Competitors must be ASSRA members. There will be a permanent trophy to be kept in the clubhouse plus individual awards to the fifth place if participation warrants.


Section 3.06   Rimfire Postal Match
 
100 shots .22 caliber Rimfire at 50 feet. Offhand, no slings, any sights, any non-bolt action single shot rifle. Targets may be obtained from and must be returned to the Schuezenmeister or designated Postal Match Director. Targets must be returned and postmarked before May 30 of the designated year. Entry fee is payable in US funds. Competitors must be an ASSRA members.
    
Section 3.07   Centerfire Postal Match
 
100 shots Offhand on ten (10) #3 targets or equivalent, ten shots per target. Subject to rules on extra shots on individual targets. May be fired on any 100 yard range and witnesses are not required except to check scoring and addition. Targets may be obtained from and must be returned to the Schuetzenmeister or designated Postal Match Director. Targets must be returned and postmarked before July 31 of the designated year. Entry fee is payable in US funds. Competitors must be ASSRA members.

  
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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #8 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 4:55pm
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Keith,

  Please don't take the following as a slam on you personally.

Quote:
ASSRA members witnesses are not required except to check scoring and addition.


  It appears from this that we still need a witness even if all it's for is to check your addition and totals.

  As mentioned in my other post ....... Quite a few years ago I was told that if I didn't have a witness to just have the truck stop waitress sign them. Heck! All I'd have to do is write left-handed and put a phony name on the targets. Same difference! I didn't shoot the Postals for years because of that. I've been called a lot of things but not a cheater at a match.

  If this is the case you might as well shoot the targets and let the match director check your scores. Again.... Same difference!

  There is no way someone can't cheat in a postal match. Period!! 

  These rules are what keep the ASSRA Postals from becoming popular. Most people don't want to cheat, contrary to what JB is insinuating. With these rules you're insinuatiing that we can't be trusted.

  To continue on what boats said...... Two or three years ago, forget exactly when now, three of us ASSRA members shot the .22 Postal, signed each others targets as witnesses, and sent them in. Never saw anything published in the Journal. At least as far as I noticed anyway.
  
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KAF
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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #9 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 4:59pm
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tenx,

"If this is the case you might as well shoot the targets and let the match director check your scores. Again.... Same difference!"


BINGO!!
  
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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #10 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 5:01pm
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Keith,

  Well now! That does make a difference. Shouldn't be any quarrel with that, if the Schuetzenmeister agrees.

  Thanks for clarifying that
  
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KAF
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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #11 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 5:02pm
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I guess it will be upto the PSM to interrupt the presently written rules, correct?

If the PSM interrupts himself/herself to be the witness then so be it, as long as that is understood by all involved.

  
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Brent
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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #12 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 5:30pm
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Permit me a comment from the bleachers.  All of this sounds very good but sending out for official targets, sending targets in, only member allowed, etc, etc. will all act to deplete your pool of participants.   

Of course, I will get roasted for this again, but why not have a much more open set of postals and try to grow them?  If people do it, relatively hassle free and have fun, they might decide to join up, and you can still run a more rigorous postal once you have a large group of participants.  But first grow the events by making them easy to play and hassle free.  Put the targets on the web for downloads, put the scores on the web for realtime feed back and make it free.  No prizes are needed, just post the scores and let folks talk.   

Sometimes you guys can take all the fun out of this game.  And fun is what it is all about....

Anyway, just my 2 cents, from the "Visitor's" side of the field...

Brent
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #13 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 5:45pm
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Jim_Borton wrote on Mar 14th, 2008 at 1:04pm:
Why not just have everyone send in a score! 
...



OK.   243 with 4 x's  200 yd 

Grin

But on a serious note, WE need to just DO IT.

At the risk of being flamed, take a look at the Forum Topic of Postal Matches on the Cast Bullet Forum.  Note the down-loadable PDF rule book.

« Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2008 at 6:14pm by Cat_Whisperer »  

Cat Whisperer (trk)
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KAF
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Re: Postal Matches
Reply #14 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 7:01pm
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Check out the top of the general dis page, the first sticky.
  
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