Jim_Borton wrote on Mar 14^th, 2008 at 1:04pm:


If you don't trust anyone, then don't give out a prize. Pretty simple. If it's done for fun (and I always thought shooting was supposed to be fun!) then we've accomplished the task that we set out to do.

WOW,
Un-believable that an ASSRA "official" would be so sarcastic and not trust his fellow members, that's really telling me and probably others something about how you feel about your fellow members. 

His words, "I don`t trust anyone when it come to this kind of stuff!" if the officials don't "TRUST" the members and are insinuating that they CHEAT maybe it's not worth the effort to do something like the Postal Matches, especially if that official is part of it, seems that he or whoever does not trust there fellow members to do the honorable thing would do nothing but cause trouble and be a problem.
 
Postal Matches have been going on for over 100 years without many problems, I can back this up with about 50 years of shooting in them, it's always been done on the HONOR and TRUST system, why should anyone think that ASSRA members are CHEATS, if this comment can not be backed up with some kind of proof I think it was an insult to all the members that shoot and maybe a BIG apology is due the members that do shoot. 

Comments like, I don't trust any shooter or member that shoots Postal Matches because they cheat is the very thing that will discourage members from participating in the events. I hope that was an isolated case and that only one official feels that way, if not there's no hope for the Matches.

Getting back to the Postal Matches, KAF has said, 
"THERE WILL be postals promoted as stated in the rule booklet, and I am hoping to have the Bench postals also!!!!  In spite of some.  Even if I have to do it!!!!!!!!!"   

You wont have to do it all your self, I'm a real fast learner, just tell me what has to be done to help you out and I'll do it as best I can.

To keep an even playing field please don't forget the 22 RF Postal bench matches.
With the 22 RF bench events everything would be the same as the Centerfire events. that would be a fair shooting platform across the board.
Shooter

Shooter,

  Well, I'll disagree with you! 

  The WSU is set up so that in order to join them you have to form a club. The WSU League on the other hand allows anyone to shoot as long as they can get up a three man team. I doubt if 3/4ths the shooters are so affiliated. I doubt if they'd have 1/4th the teams shooting if they did as you suggested. Actually I'd say most are members of the ASSRA and not the WSU.

  I'm not saying that ASSRA membership wouldn't be nice for everyone to have but then we run into the exclusionary question that has brought such an uproar on here in the past. I don't know if you've been on here long enuf to get a look at  the "inclusive" vs "exclusive" threads we've had in the past, but believe me there are a LOT of opinions on that.

  I'll even stick my neck out and say most of the people on here are not members of the ASSRA. If it was set up so that only ASSRA members could get on here, and it easily can, how many subscribers do you think we'd have? How many questions would go unanswered from lack of participation? I think I can say I know a bit about SS (Schuetzen) shooting but I can't answer 1/10th of the questions on here. But any that are asked seem to get some kind of answer.

  I don't really have a dog in this since I've been a member of the ASSRA for quite a few years. I'm only looking at it from past experience in running these things, and my personal opinion is that the more you include the better the chance of succeeding. It might even encourage some to join. 

  You yourself, as a newbie to the game, are a beneficiary of these "Non" members. How long would you stay here if half/none of your questions were answered?

I have some thoughts on the member non member thing.

If a match is sponsored by any club or assoc and is written up as for members only then that is how I believe it should be done, as in the ASSRA rules a By Laws, Just like the US Constitution.

Now nothing says that a Non Member Postal or whatever couldn't be run under the same guide lines, using ASSRA targets or not, that would give Non Members a taste of things.

Under ASSRA rules, it states there are prizes, and a trophy for names to be inscribed on,  Say a NON member match wouldn't have prizes.

See I am the kind that would promote non members being allowed to shoot matches as stated in the By Laws.

I also would not turn away anybody that say came to a 22 match but didn't have a Single Action rilfe.  I'd want that guy to sit and shoot the same as anybody else, to see what  it is all about. And I am not alone.
You'd be amazed at how many guys have said, " You can't accurately shoot a 22 rimfire at 200 yds"

I would like to see the 22 rimfire postal for offhand go, and ADD a 22 rimfire Bench postal, 100 and 200 yds.

Also I'd like to see a Centerfire Postal  Offhand 200 yd and 100 and 200 Yd bench added.

I am not clairvoyant, so I can not say, Nobody would shoot them.
I have to let it be shown, if the matches don't fly then you let them go. Pretty easy I'd say.

Keith,

  As a member of the BoD I bow to your reasoning.

  On the bolt gun issue...... We have two people from the Davenport club that shoot with us regularly and that club uses bolt guns almost exclusively. We make no distinction when it comes to awarding prises at the end of the year. It would be kind of hard to exclude them since they belong to the oldest "true" Schuetzen club in the country.

  If anybody wants to argue "true" and "oldest" I will. 

Digital,

Quote:
 

  An interesting concept. Have you ever lost? 

On Cheating.

I believe in any  sport were simple recognition is at stake there will be little cheating. Anybody posting false scores is only cheating themselves.   

In any sport with prizes or money involved in any way cheating is the norm and it's best to expect it.

Boats

It seems some of this thread has just disappeared.