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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1? (Read 31938 times)
38_Cal
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #30 - Mar 12th, 2008 at 3:29pm
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Modern schuetzen is both bench and offhand competition.  One reason you don't see too many Rugers is that they do take tuning and a quicker lock time to make them competitive...but in the past few years, the Zika hammer and various triggers have addressed some of those problems.  Another reason for not that many Rugers has to do with traditionalists versus modern rifle shooters.  For modern designs, there are faster lock time actions, even compared to a Ruger with a Zika hammer, such as the Miller.  The advantage to a Ruger is that they are very inexpensive, when compared to a Miller, even with tuning and new parts.  Rugers are also readily available.   

I would personally love to own a CPA, but I had a Ruger No. 3 in my rack, and was able to do my own work to suit my needs and budget, a little bit at a time.    Just remember, you've got to do what works for you.  If the Ruger is already in your rack, you're probably 30-40% of the way there.  Shoot it with the existing barrel/caliber and plain base cast bullets and get the skills up on casting bullets and developing loads, then see if the bug is still biting.  If it is, you can do the job a bit at a time.  It will cost more in the long run than giving it to a smith to do the whole conversion, but it can be done in affordable chunks.  Start with hammer/trigger/action tuning.  Then a new barrel using the existing wood, then new wood.   

Just my thoughts...

David Kaiser
Montezuma, IA
  

David Kaiser
Montezuma, IA
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leadball
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #31 - Mar 12th, 2008 at 3:48pm
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Jim & Jeff;
              We  have to consider the possibility that Andy may be able to beat us with a Stevens Favorite. Andy's Ruger #1 has had some word done to it , He pulled the forarm once for me but I don't remember just what had been done.  How well do you guys like the #1, would you each like to trade your Miller's for a couple Ruger's.  leadball
  
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tenx
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #32 - Mar 12th, 2008 at 3:58pm
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Shooter,

  Yes. Originally Schuetzen was strictly offhand, but today as David points out it is both an offhand and bench venue. Schuetzen, in the English translation just means "shooting" so it really covers all shooting. Probably a better term today would be Single Shot Shooting.

  In this country it hasn't been strictly offhand since before the ASSRA was formed back in the 40's(?). I'd say that if we would restrict Schuetzen matches to offhand there wouldn't be any matches, in short order. Well over 3/4ths of the SS matches held today are comprised of bench matches. I think our club is normal in that regard in that we have 9 bench and 4 offhand matches. At that there are only about 4 or 5 out of 20 some members that will shoot them. I don't think we have one member that shoots offhand exclusively.

  It's going to be interesting to see how the WSU, with their new strictly offhand rules matches does in the future. Personally I think they stuck their foot in it.... but I've been wrong before.
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #33 - Mar 12th, 2008 at 4:24pm
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My experience, though limited, is just the opposite.
I know of no one locally that has ANY interest in "Benchrest Schuetzen".
We have two local clubs shooting Offhand, iron sights, single shot matches at ASSRA Targets.

Funny how regional differences work, ain't it? 

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the original poster is a local shooter... I would assume he's building a rifle for our two clubs that hold no bench matches... 

Paul F.
  
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Shooter_1
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #34 - Mar 12th, 2008 at 6:38pm
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Ok,
I think I get it now, in the beginning there was earth, then came Schuetzen, that was originally an off hand shooting event, then came the ASSRA in the late 1940's and set up some rules allowing "Schuetzen" rifles to be shot off a bench. English translation of Schuetzen just means "shooting" so it really covers all shooting, not just off hand.

Now that makes sense. So the official rule book allows all the Schuetzen rifles to be shot off a bench and anyone thinking otherwise is either just wrong, living way back in the past, or hasn't really read the current rule book. 

Sure is a lot of Info in this group but can see that a lot of it is just what some guys "think" and not really the way it is, and that can be very mis-leading to a new member. 

tenx has said,

"I'd say that if we would restrict Schuetzen matches to offhand there wouldn't be any matches, in short order. Well over 3/4ths of the SS matches held today are comprised of bench matches".

If what tenx said is true I think it's odd that according to the ASSRA rule book the association has off hand postal matches for 25 % of the membership but for some reason does not have bench rest postal matches for the other 75 % of the membership, anyone know the reasoning behind this ???.

I'm involved in some other Associations that have postal matches ( not Schuetzen ) and we always seem to have 300 + members shooting in them every year from all parts of the country. 

Seems like it could be a win-win situation for the ASSRA and it's members if postal bench rest matches were allowed as an official event, anyone know who to talk to about getting something like this in the rule book as official matches like the off hand postal matches are, this way maybe 75 % of the other shooters from around the country could participate in the shooting events.
Shooter
  
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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #35 - Mar 12th, 2008 at 6:53pm
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Leadball,

I would not trade my Miller for a dozen Rugers if you threw in a couple of Winchesters to boot. However, if I was shooting a well tuned Ruger in a match, I would not feel out-gunned.
  

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leadball
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #36 - Mar 12th, 2008 at 8:24pm
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Jeff;
       The point you make about shooting a "well tuned Ruger #1" is well taken--the problem is I've seen exactly 1 well tuned Ruger in my life.  Maybe someone will eventually put a "well tuned Ruger" in everone's hand.  I'll stand on my first statement that when we figure cost, availability, etc. of the Ruger #1 singleshot there has to be a reason we don't see more on the line.  I have wished for years that someone would make a stricker fired breechblock for the Ruger so everone could buy or build a less expensive competive Schuetzen offhand or benchrest rifle.   leadball
  
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humboldt
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #37 - Mar 12th, 2008 at 10:36pm
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I would consider shooting my No1 Ruger in a Schuetzen match(there are two clubs here localy), but it't a 45-70 and I have already tried shooting my Shiloh Sharps 45-70 and its a little on the large side for good off hand results. So, my question now is, how does get into contact with Mr. Zika concerning one of his hammers? Mori
  
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tenx
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #38 - Mar 12th, 2008 at 10:52pm
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Shooter,

Smiley Smiley Smiley See if you can find out how many shooters shoot/shot the ASSRA's Postal Match this past Winter, or in previous years for that matter. I think if you find that 10 shot it in any given year it'd be about avarage. That's with about 2000 members, IIRC. Some of us here shot that and unless I missed something I never saw hide nor hair of it published in The Journal as had been previously done.

  The big problem with offhand matches is that "old guys" are to shaky to do well at it, and since the average age of an ASSRA member is around 60 yrs. old, they go with bench shooting. It take a considerable amount of practice to become good at offhand. Something not many have the time or inclination to do.

  The plain fact is that at most clubs if all you shot was offhand not many would show up. If you shot just bench you'd have to beat them off with a stick! Maybe I should qualify that and say most clubs East of the Missouri River.
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #39 - Mar 12th, 2008 at 11:01pm
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Quote:
My experience, though limited, is just the opposite.
I know of no one locally that has ANY interest in "Benchrest Schuetzen".
We have two local clubs shooting Offhand, iron sights, single shot matches at ASSRA Targets.
Funny how regional differences work, ain't it? 
Paul F.


Yep, funny......

We have no repeat no local interest in either benchrest or offhand Schuetzen in my area, I don't know a single soul in our 600-member club or for that matter within a 150-mile radius who would walk across the street to even witness a real Schuetzen match of any type.

22LR silhouette, OTOH, is alive and well and thriving. Both kinds.
Go figure, regards, Joe
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #40 - Mar 12th, 2008 at 11:43pm
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That's a bummer!

Those silhouette shooters must be afraid of the brutal recoil of such shoulder-busters like the .32-40..   Grin  Cool

That reminds me... I gotta get some zero's for a .22 silhouette match in a month or so...

I'll shoot just about anything and like it  Cheesy

Paul F.
  
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Shooter_1
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #41 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 12:15am
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tenx,
Please don't forget, I'm the new guy here, you guys know a lot more about this than I do. But if what you say is true, most members are "old guys" 60 years or more ( I'll be 70  next week )  a bench rest postal match may work very well, one thing for sure, no one will know unless the  ASSRA gives it a try. 

I can understand that if most of the members are old and  shaky the offhand postal matches may not do well, but what about bench rest, even my old and shaky body may have a chance shooting against other old and shaky guys, or even some that are not so old and shaky. At my age and physical condition I would shoot every bench match I could get to and every bench rest postal match ASSRA would hold. 

Of course it has to be promoted and done in an organized manner and the results has to be made known in the ASSRA Journal. If the results are not published I have no idea how one would find out how many shot the offhand postal matches this past year, or any other year if the shooting results are not published. 

As a new member maybe I've already asked way to many questions such as:

"I think it's odd that according to the ASSRA rule book the association has off hand postal matches for 25 % of the membership but for some reason does not have bench rest postal matches for the other 75 % of the membership, anyone know the reasoning behind this ???."

So far received no answer.

Also mentioned:

I'm involved in some other Associations that have postal matches ( not Schuetzen ) and we always seem to have 300 + members shooting in them every year from all parts of the country. 

Then asked the question:

Seems like it could be a win-win situation for the ASSRA and it's members if postal bench matches were allowed,   

"anyone know who to talk to about getting something like this in the rule book as official matches like the official offhand postal matches are,"   

this way maybe 75 % of the other shooters from around the country could participate in the shooting events. ???

So far no answer.

Last question, maybe:

Does anyone know if postal bench rest matches have ever been tried before ?.

  For all I know maybe they have been already tried it and no one wants to shoot, but it's very hard to believe that members of a shooting association don't want to shoot. 

Ok, now I've probably out lived my welcome as a new member
Shooter
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #42 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 6:08am
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There are two very quick answers to your questions Shooter_1.  The first is that postal matches are not a very large emphasis in ASSRA, that is, postal matches of any kind are not all that popular.  Secondly, this being a volunteer organization for most all of its events, including the postal matches, there has not been a person who has stepped up and volunteered to organize, publicize, run, and otherwise administer these matches which have not been strongly asked for.

If there is sufficient interest, and if someone wants to volunteer to do the not-insignificant work of running a bench postal match, I am sure that that person and their interested group would receive nothing but approval from the officers of ASSRA.  This is JMHO, but I am a former member of the BofD, and have restarted a local match here in Central VA, so I know a little of which I speak.  Don't get put off by the statements above.  If you are seriously interested in such a match, step up and organize it.  Believe it or not, there is always "room at the top" of the match organizing (and most other work involving) activities in ASSRA as well as other volunteer groups.

Charlie Shaeff
the Green Frog

PS  I hope to be one of those "old guy" shooters one day.  I frequently see some rickety old specimen of humanity assume a rock-steady offhand position just long enough for a single shot (at a time) and clean my clock with his scores!  Roll Eyes
  
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frederick
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #43 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 6:11am
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Perhaps the avoidance of offhand shooting is reflective of a growing
tend in this country to escape and ease the pain of doing anything
that is physically and mentally demanding. Yes, we grow older, and yes,
many shooters have physical handicaps. But I
keep seeing shooters that have to use a cane to get up to the firing line
yet they still shoot offhand. There are some that have problems so severe as to preclude offhand. In shooting sports keep in mind that
your are competing not only in a match with others but with yourself.
You as a person are not judged on scores. And why not participate
in the total sport?

Long range .22 shil. is popular here; it's fun and low cost. As usual, the
match winner is often the one who shoots the most chickens at 50 yards
offhand. (This past Sunday a 35 y.o. lady nailed 11 of 15 chickens offhand shooting a light semi-auto Rugar with custom barrel)

Enjoy the sport.

Fred
  
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leadball
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Re: Building a schuetzen rifle on a Ruger No.1?
Reply #44 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 9:40am
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frederick;
               I think your right-on in your last post,  offhand shooting is just to hard and challenging for most younger shooters, they can't get instant gratification because offhand shooting takes a lot of practice.  Health reasons prevent some shooters from shooting offhand but, mostly they are just not interested for the reasons mentioned above.   leadball
  
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