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MerwinBray
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Opinions on 44.5 reline
Mar 9th, 2008 at 1:14pm
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All the talk on other threads about the 25-20ss has got me wanting more than ever to get my 44.5 switch barrel set up where I want it. It came with a 25-20ss barrel. I have a 38-55 I had put on it. My intention was always to switch them if I wanted depending on what match, weather, my mood, what ever. 
After really looking at my barrel I have doubts about it. 1st, it is not an original target type but a sporting barrel. This may make it a little light but I know that can be worked with. My bigger concern is the bore. The first inch or so in front of the chamber shows wear. The rest of the bore looks ok, not perfect, but fairly sharp. I can't decide if I should ultimately have it relined or not. I have a personal issue with altering an original barrel that is otherwise ok, But, If I can't do with it as I want....what good is it?
I know relining is a lot cheaper than a new barrel. I am looking for opinions. What would YOU do?
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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #1 - Mar 9th, 2008 at 2:56pm
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merwinbray;
             If this barrel was from a really high- dollar rifle I would suggest you not re-line.  Re-lined barrels don't seem to substract much from the value of rifles I see for sale.  I would suggest a new barrel, the cost of a new barrel over a good re-line is not all that much, a # 8 [Win contour 28"] Douglas barrel is about $160--a TJ Gateway Enterprise liner will be about $115  or $4.00 an inch.  Chambering, crowning etc will cost a little more that installing the liner but with a new barrel, you end -up with the best of both worlds.  If you decide to re-line find someone that does re-lining--you don't want that call in the night " I seem to have ended-up to two different places in the middle of your Stevens barrel what should I do now"   leadball
  
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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #2 - Mar 9th, 2008 at 3:16pm
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Merwin,

  Depending on how "bad" that area in front of the chamber is it might be just right for breech seating without deforming the bullet on doing so.

  I'm certainly no gun smith but you could do most of the work of re-lining yourself. I re-lined a .22 RF with a TJ liner. Did the drilling out, and glassing in, and had my gunsmith do the crown and chambering.

  There are two ways of drilling the barrel out. Push and pull thru ways. I used the pull thru but a push thru with a proper pilot should have the hole come out right in line with the existing one.

  I'm not recommending you do a re-line, because you can get a lot of "heat" against them. Quite a few will recommend a new barrel keeping the old one "as-is". It would make the re-sale price go up. I wouldn't recommend doing so with a really nice, NRA Excellent rifle but if the only good thing about it was it was all there, then I wouldn't worry about it. It's a decision you'll have to make on your own.  But the nice thing about a re-line is that you don't have to fit a new forend , or alter an existing one.
  
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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #3 - Mar 9th, 2008 at 4:07pm
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Merwin, before you do anything rash, have you shot the 25-20?  I would suggest having a gunsmith set up to do so use a bore scope on the rough area, and see just how rough it really is.  You may find that a light lapping will take the area to acceptable for breech seating, or you may find that it's a fur ball and have to line it anyways!   

David Kaiser
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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #4 - Mar 9th, 2008 at 4:19pm
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I think you oughta park the sporter barrel and have your rifle  rebarreled with a Smith barrel.  Make the .25 the same weight as your 38/55.   Same length.  Better to use the 25/20 repeater case. Its a stronger case. Just as accurate if not more accurate than the SS version.  25/20 R brass is plentifull

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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #5 - Mar 9th, 2008 at 7:28pm
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My two cents worth is to shoot it first and see how it shoots. If it is not accurate enough to suit you then to me it would depend on the condition of the gun. If it is really nice I would go for a new barrel. If average or less I would go with a TJ liner. Did a .22lr to .22mag conversion recently. Gun was on the rough side and I wanted to keep it looking original on the outside so I went with the TJ liner.
  
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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #6 - Mar 9th, 2008 at 8:23pm
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The gun itself is average, not high grade. I have shot it but not at distances any where near near 200. Only on my short backyard range I set up for the "Winter League". It shot okay with fixed and considering I didn't do any devolpment, just loaded a couple different loads and shot it. I only loaded with swiss 1.5 and that 1st BP equiv that goex made, I think it was clear shot.
Westerner, I already have alot of stuff for the 25-20ss so I will probably stick with it. I am light on brass but have enough now for schuetzen if I re and de at the bench, though I will need a new stem for my seater and re&de, unless I make a plugged case. I have argued with myself about the 25-20 repeater and someday hope to go down that road.
I think looking into a lapping and trying seating 1st is a good idea, maybe I'll get lucky.
I have relined a couple of .22 barrels, they got better as I went. I guess I am timid of screwing this barrel up. I am not a gunsmith, I only play one in my shed, and that gets scary!
A barrel the same size as my other ALSO makes good sense, keeps things consistent. HHMMMMM.
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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #7 - Mar 10th, 2008 at 2:34am
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Earth to westerner !

I thought you had a CPA 44.5 Merwin.  Me duh ! 

Ok, I want to change my opinion.  I recommend you turn your Stevens into a full blown Shutzen rifle with three barrels. A .32, a .38 and a .25. 
All Smith gain twist barrels.  Get the triggers and wood from CPA.   
A new set of Axtell sights to keep it traditional.  As long as you're at it make the wood deluxe.  It has to be checkered, maybe have Ken Hurst engrave a ferocious looking Russian Boar throwing some houndogs in the air.  I'd do the action black to fit the mood of the engraving. Thats about it I guess.  Oh, the barrels should be 30" long. 

Most of the work on your part would be final assembly and money man.   
A plain simple plug breechseater works great on the small .25 bullets. 
If you need Ebony or Rose wood for the matching screwdrivers and loading tools to go along with this project , just let me know. 

Man, this is really fun !  I'm sure glad were spending your money Merwin  Smiley Smiley

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MerwinBray
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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #8 - Mar 10th, 2008 at 9:30pm
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Joe,
I don't even know where to start with all that! I believe if I could afford all of that I would just buy a rifle company solely based around making ME the gun I want. Porfits? well, as long as I had my gun! But thanks for the advice Cheesy Slightly more serious though. Do you know of people who have had real succes with the 25-20wcf? I truly have beat myself up trying to figure if I want to try one when I am able to do something with my second barrel. Someday I hope to be able to thread my barrels like several people I know and shoot with. Still learning the lathe and have a good ways to go.
Merwin
« Last Edit: Mar 10th, 2008 at 9:38pm by MerwinBray »  

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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #9 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 2:15am
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Duane Jenner uses a 25/20 R case in his lowall. Very accurate. The R case will take more pressure than the old SS case. It will last longer too.

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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #10 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 2:25am
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I had a .25-20 SS 44-1/2 which had about two inches of pitting ahead of the chamber courtesy of the old corrosive/erosive primers with the rest of the barrel pristine.  It never shot better than mediocre groups so I finally had Redman reline it and I rechambered it to .25-20 SS again.  It shot much better, especially with cast loads.  Hated to do it, but the rifle was not in totally original condition anyway, nor was it a high-grade rarity.
  
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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #11 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 8:51am
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Merwin Bray
I'll give you a third option. Have it relined and chambered for the 25-21. The 25-21 had the best reputation for accuracy back in the day. 

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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #12 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 9:22am
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40_Rod,
Ya know, I was already debating do nothing, 25-20ss reline or 25-20r reline, then you come along and pique my interest in the truly classic! Does the madness EVER stop? Probably not.
Do you have something in that round? If so, any chance of a look see at the Frogenmiesters match? BTW, I am very happy with the mold and haven't forgoten about it. Thank you again.
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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #13 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 10:27am
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And DON'T forget the fitted English walnut case with brass fittings!


westerner wrote on Mar 10th, 2008 at 2:34am:
Earth to westerner !

I thought you had a CPA 44.5 Merwin.  Me duh ! 

Ok, I want to change my opinion.  I recommend you turn your Stevens into a full blown Shutzen rifle with three barrels. A .32, a .38 and a .25. 
All Smith gain twist barrels.  Get the triggers and wood from CPA.  
A new set of Axtell sights to keep it traditional.  As long as you're at it make the wood deluxe.  It has to be checkered, maybe have Ken Hurst engrave a ferocious looking Russian Boar throwing some houndogs in the air.  I'd do the action black to fit the mood of the engraving. Thats about it I guess.  Oh, the barrels should be 30" long. 

Most of the work on your part would be final assembly and money man.  
A plain simple plug breechseater works great on the small .25 bullets. 
If you need Ebony or Rose wood for the matching screwdrivers and loading tools to go along with this project , just let me know. 

Man, this is really fun !  I'm sure glad were spending your money Merwin  Smiley Smiley

                                                                       Joe.







 




  

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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #14 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 11:15am
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Over the course of time, I got extra barrels for my 44-1/2 and relined and chambered them for .25-20 WCF and .25-21.  The latter certainly has an accuracy edge over the former, but if it's more accurate than the .25-20 SS with smokeless powder, I haven't been able to definitively prove that.  The .25-21 is definitely more expensive to shoot than the .25-20 SS.
  
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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #15 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 12:29pm
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Bent Ramrod,
I have pondered the other 25 since this morning and had sort of told myself the same basic thing, expensive. I have SS stuff and as Westerner pointed out, rimmed is not expensive and available. I am a sucker for old "odd" calibers, but my budget ain't what it needs to be for all I want to do!

Cat WHisperer,
I think a case like THAT merits german silver, not brass. But that is a matter of taste. I could polish the silver in all my free time!
Merwin
  

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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #16 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 7:08pm
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Or you could have the family's butler do it between polishing silver and answering the door!  Grin Grin Grin

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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #17 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 8:02pm
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Charlie,
I regret to inform you that the butler has been let go. After leaving my former type of work, I realized how much damage I have done to my back over the years. Realizing that shooting offhand back pain would be detrimental, I needed to hire a live in masseust. In these tight times, the butler HAD to go!! Wonder if she polishes silver? 
Merwin
  

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Re: Opinions on 44.5 reline
Reply #18 - Mar 16th, 2008 at 11:11am
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MerwinBray
I have started a .25 project. The action is a 44 1/2 that I rescued from the worlds ugliest varmiter. I am sending it to CPA to have some parts that the were missing or so altered by the builder of the varmiter that they are now useless. CPA will also install a set of doubleset triggers and a 4 finger loop lever. I have an RKS .25 gain twist barrel ordered, that I will chamber it 25-21. The last thing that I need to find is a really nice piece of wood for stocking it as a Waltut Hill. 

40 Rod

  
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