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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) borchardt long range paneled? price check (Read 10326 times)
bushka
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borchardt long range paneled? price check
Feb 10th, 2008 at 7:26pm
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I saw at the gunshow a refinished panel action 1878.panel was rubber. 
It had a mint bore,ebony tip,totally hotblued,checkering recut,shotgun monogram rubber plate,long range tang sight,not sure if repro. 
Considering they only made 260 of these,what are the chances this could be a mock up or paneled military action? 
It has no engraving,no rectangle around "old reliable",seemed kinda light for a full round bbl,but no holes for a rear sight were present.front blade. 
The rifling did look different than my military rifle. 
Had no cap on the PG,nor a snobble,and I dont remember seeing an escutcheon key on the forend. 
The mans price was 4950. 
Shall I pursue it? or trade some eyeteeth? 
Thanks! 
B
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« Last Edit: May 10th, 2008 at 7:32pm by bushka »  
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FITZ
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #1 - Feb 10th, 2008 at 8:51pm
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bushka, in today's world of Metal working tools it is no big deal to panel a Borchardt reciever. Does not matter if it is a plain Sporter or a Military action. In fact the Military recievers are dead soft, easily machined. A Military reciever can be reworked to look like a sporting model by machining away the front bottom where the action sling swivel exists. The top of the frame can be machined to have the same ear like apperance also as there is extra material there also. The place to look at real hard is the bottom front of the reciever where the lever pin goes thru the action. Neat radiused edges there that are forged and finished by hand. Also military actions are stamped with company name and address and serial number on the left hand side. Removal will generally show as thinner side wall. Also the sporting models had the serial number stamped on the very bottom of the reciever just ahead of the trigger. The stamping is also very small, I don't think the stamp height is much more that 1/32 to 1/16" high on the commercial sporting models. If it is an original Long Range or Mid Range it would have a removable top tang for the tang sight. This is fitted with a taper fit on the side walls and a single screw at the front end of the base. There have been many reworked actions around in the last few years so look at it real hard. HTH, Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

FITZ
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zrifleman
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #2 - Feb 10th, 2008 at 9:37pm
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Original Long Range Borchardts would have a barrel key and escuteons on the foreend. The grip cap is either hard rubber or a "snail" wood tip. The action is machined out in the front under the barrel and at the rear where the stock bolt threads in. Also the breech block is machined out on the bottom of the spring shroud. All of these thing were done to reduce the weight. This rifle sounds like what Fitz described. If it is well done--$4500 is very reasonable. A very bascic reproduction by Al Storey from Borchardt Rifle Co. starts at about $3600--plain wood, no color case, no target sights. I am just finishing my 5th project--a paneled receiver--copy of a Creedmore.
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #3 - Feb 11th, 2008 at 9:41am
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If it's a redone military action, considering that the rest of the modern-type refinish work could be done for about $1500 or so, don't you think that $4500 is about twice what it's worth? I do.

I've recently sold and traded several fairly nice original Borchardt actions, including a military reworked into a removeable-tang sporter, in the $900-$1400 range. Someone willing to pay $4500 for a reworked and questionable complete rifle would have gotten my complete attention immediately, instantly and with no delay!
JMO, good luck, Joe
  
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boats
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #4 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 8:05am
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The guy at the gun show probably bought it from a Gunsmith and is doubling his money.

You get some deals at shows but generaly they are snake oil salesmen and buyer beware

Boats
  
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harry_eales
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #5 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 3:04pm
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Bushka,

The serial number of this rifle would give the best clue as to it's original configuration, as it can be checked against the original factory records. Did you note the Serial No? If not, contact the seller and ask him what the number is, if it's a dodgy rifle it's likely he will refuse to supply it. At least then you'll know it's probably not in original configuration, and therefore not worth what he is asking for it.

If it's genuine, I'm surprised the seller hasn't had it 'lettered' as this would add to the overall value of the rifle, even if it has been refinished.

It would certainly be worth checking out the Serial No, and doing that could save you a good deal of money. 

Sharps would 'panel' a 78 action for an additional $5.00 on special order, and many have had panels milled in them since by gunsmiths.

A blade fore sight seems unusual on a Long Range Rifle, although not completely unknown, most would have had the 'hooded' adjustable for windage front sight, most probably with a spirit level attached.

Harry 

  
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Brent
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #6 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 4:22pm
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Henry, I think I read somewhere that the records for Borchardts are particularly poor.  So, might come up with a nonresult.   

Did those panel patterns ever make it to you yet?

Brent
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #7 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 4:44pm
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Harry, over the years I've attempted to letter 9 Borchardts, from #360 to #19xxx. 3 were in the records. The Borchardt records seem particularly sparse, especially when compared to my success rates (75%-100%) in lettering other makes such as Colt, Marlin, L.C.Smith and Winchester.
HTH, regards, Joe
  
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harry_eales
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #8 - Feb 13th, 2008 at 2:52pm
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Quote:
Harry, over the years I've attempted to letter 9 Borchardts, from #360 to #19xxx. 3 were in the records. The Borchardt records seem particularly sparse, especially when compared to my success rates (75%-100%) in lettering other makes such as Colt, Marlin, L.C.Smith and Winchester.
HTH, regards, Joe


Hello Joe,
I know that some of the model 78 Borchardt records are incomplete but I do believe that the majority of these relate to the Military action numbers.

In Sellers book on Sharps Firearms he quotes known production figures for nearly all the variants of the Borchardt. He couldn't have done that without some reference to the Factory Records.

My suggestion to check out the serial no, (if it could be traced), was only made to try and help the original poster 'Bushka' ascertain if the rifle he saw, was a refinished original Long Range Rifle or a Military Action that had been worked over. It could make a lot of difference when it comes down to a price.

Regards,

Harry
  
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zrifleman
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #9 - Feb 15th, 2008 at 1:34am
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J D---Even when I can pick up a decent action for $1000, it still adds up to about $2500 just for parts and labor (not mine) by the time the gun is complete. Barrel $300, stock blank $100-$300, removable tang $150, color case hardening $200, rust blue barrel $100, mill panels and tang $200, sights $400-$500, checkering $300, stamping the address on the barrel $100. Whoops--thats over $2000 not including the action and months of labor.  Remember-- he was talking about a complete rifle. I know of several "redone" Borchardts that have sold for over $5000. Next time you get a nice action you want to sell, let me know.
  
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bushka
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #10 - May 10th, 2008 at 6:05pm
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1878 part deux...
I saw it today again at the show.
Now I got more info and some corrections,gave it the hard look.

The tang is a seperate peice.
The wood p.g. is snailed or snobbles as per Sellers.
The barrel in fact has 2 filled screws where a rear sight could be.
The barrel has been re-lined.
The panels are wood.
The serial number is [get this] 624XX, waayyy high off the scale.

Me think its an "A" rifle,but also can be a conversion,as the seller mentioned the gunsmith name of "willard" or something like that,
that advertised years ago.

more to come....
  
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bushka
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #11 - May 10th, 2008 at 7:32pm
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The barrel was lined with 8 groove rifling,which I think is old as its usually 6 groove nowadays?? it is military profile.
The front sight dovetail has an open blade in it,and .437" dovetail,
peculiar to Sharps pattern rifles.
The space under the lever,ahead of the trigger,has an small "L" in script.
The serial# numbers are small as 1/32"-1/16" in height,as a previous poster pointed out.
The action is sculpted in areas as in Sellers book.
The tang sight appears to be the longrange 5" staff,with thumbscrew elevation under the slide/eyecup with no windage.it may be an Axtell,but it looks aged,I saw no patent dates,it is a base screwed to the 
extended tang.
And the neat part was, as I pointed out the funny stuff,the dealer
knocked off 1150. and decided to take a 50 dollar profit instead,but just for me of course,as he knows I been looking at it the past 3 gunshows.
He is reputable dealer in high end stuff,and says the original owner tried to get 10,000 out of it.
« Last Edit: May 10th, 2008 at 7:42pm by bushka »  
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Redwing
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #12 - May 10th, 2008 at 8:55pm
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Until you identified the panel’s as wood, I would have said they were gutta-percha which is a polyterpene commonly used in those day’s for the manufacture of grip’s, cap’s and buttplates. 

Seen a few Borchardt’s with them as a panel…. Always got hard and cracked afterwhile.

Ed…..
  
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bushka
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #13 - May 11th, 2008 at 2:44am
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I understand, the panels do look like "plastic" or heavily varnished wood.

I`m taking this slow as it shows,I`ll take it or leave it at this point,
just waiting for a few things to sell,maybe next show, if its still there I may jump on it,that is if no fancy german smoothbore makes its appearance between now and then.

3800. for a conversion/restoration??
Now does that sound resonable??????

tia,

B
  
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Dave_Carpenter
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Re: borchardt long range paneled? price check
Reply #14 - May 11th, 2008 at 2:32pm
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"3800. for a conversion/restoration??
Now does that sound resonable?"

I have a Borchardt  Long-Rang with side panels made from a military action, it cost more than $3800 years ago to have the work done.
  
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