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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sharps not good enough (Read 20759 times)
Richard
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Sharps not good enough
Feb 4th, 2008 at 11:30am
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I've recently become interested in Sharps Rifles and noticed that they were often, it seemed, used in Schuetzen matches. I contacted the local gun club and asked about Schuetzen matches since I thought it would be interesting to visit and see the different rifles used. The club contacted me and said that they were better than that and most don't use Sharps, almost as if Sharps are looked down upon. Is this generally the case?  What guns are typically used?

Thanks,
Richard
  
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Brent
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #1 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 11:35am
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I'd agree with that opinion - that it is a widely held opinion, not necessarily an accurate one.   

Most Schuetzen is done with Ballards, High/Low wall Winchesters, Stevens, and similar central hammer rifle with faster lock times.   

Semitraditionalists branch out to Martinis (oooh that should draw some fire), and nontraditionalist shoot things like Ruger #1s and other strange actions.   

Brent
  
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Richard
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #2 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 12:36pm
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Thanks Brent ...

I haven't shot in decades and I'm just trying to familiarize myself with things. I've always been interested in single shot rifles and I'm getting my feet wet again. I'm also getting used to the price tags on good equipment.
  
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Harry_M_Pope
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #3 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 1:08pm
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Hello Richard:  I'ld personally like to welcome you to the American Single Shot Rifle Association (ASSRA) on behalf of the Leadership and Members.  I am glad to hear that you are just getting your feet wet in the single shot side of marksmanship and happy that you found the ASSRA.  I would, however, encourage you to instead; "just jump in" , the water is fine.

You will note that our organization is NOT the American Single Shot ______(fill in your brand name)____ Rifle Association.  Lots of folks would fill in "Winchester, Ballard, Maynard, Sharps, Stevens, Peabody, F.Wesson, etc.,etc." or whatever their individual preference might happen to be.  But that's not what the original organizers of this great organization decided upon when they came together to form an organization (association) for the betterment of single shot rifle shooters.

Please don't let these other shooter's personal preferences get in your way of enjoying the sport with whatever you decide is right for you to shoot.   

I believe that I would be much more endearing towards the shooter of a $7k Ballard, who could put aside his personal preference to his Ballard and help me, a lowley Newbie, get started with my $800 Ruger No. 1.

What ever you show up with (hardware), I for one would be glad to see you on the line and shoot along side you.

With best regards,
Harry M. Pope, Jr.

In Memory of Mr. H.M. Pope, 1861-1950
  
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boats
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #4 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 2:17pm
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Richard

If a Sharps action is stocked for offhand and shoots a caliber suitable for 200 yard paper targets there is little reason for it not to be competitive.  Main obstacle as most Sharps are set up is the calibers are large with significant recoil. Since in Schuetzen we shoot paper targets at limited range the lighter cartridges have advantages. 32's win most Schuetzen matches.

If you shoot a match that's limited to Black powder that disadvantage is less, 38's are generally thought of as best for BP Schuetzen but 40's would not be out of contention.  Several of our local matches run a separate match for 40 caliber and above were the Sharps actions in large calibers do very well.

Lock time and heavy hammer fall could be a disadvantage compared to the later period center hung hammer actions.  Not a major factor but when a few points decide match winner competitors look at every thing. Bench rest probably makes the side hammer a bit less competitive than when it's used in offhand matches.

And to put it into prespective lots of us shoot traditonal outfits that would have been typical pre WW I while others shoot rifles that are completly modern except for the falling block and lead bullet.  We give up  points but often beat the "race guns" 

I say bring it out and shoot, you won't be disappointed.

Boats
  
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Joe_S
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #5 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 8:29pm
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If I were you, I would start by asking myself : What is it that I want?

do you want the Sharps because it is a famous buffalo gun, powerful, with accuracy and long range, and because Quigley used one? those are all good reasons, and if that is what you want, buy a Sharps. I have two and I like them a lot. It is NOT the ideal Schuetzenfest gun, BUT: it qualifies as a Schuetzen gun so you can shoot a Schuetzen match with it. It makes a great hunting rifle. You can shoot buffalo cross-sticks matches with it (assumming the caliber qualifies), and you can shoot BPCR with it. In fact, you can shoot just about any centerfire rifle match with it except rapid fire high power.
If you want a rifle that would be good enough to consistently win in Schuetzen matche, the 1874 would probably not be the best choice. I have won a few medals with mine, but for some reason you just dont see many on the firing line in tradidional Schuetzen competition. 
If the Sharps is what interests you, then buy the Sharps and practice as much as you can. If it doesnt equal your expectations, then you can try something else. just my opinon, fwiw. Joe S
  
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Brent
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #6 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 8:49pm
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I think Joe sums it up rather nicely.   

Brent

PS.  I have two Sharps (74 and 77) that I rarely shoot at a schuetzen match.  I have a 78 that I do use - though not too well, yet.
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #7 - Feb 4th, 2008 at 9:25pm
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The Sharps wasn't popular for schuetzen matches in it's day, and still isn't. But I sure wouldn't care, if it was what I liked and wanted to give it a try! Welcome!
  
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irish66
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #8 - Feb 6th, 2008 at 7:39am
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not to long ago I introduced a fellow shooter to schuetzen here in newbraunfels. well first match he shot all he showed up with was a cpa 44 1/2 in 45-70.
and needless to say at the end of the day he had very roundly kicked everyone's -----.
so do not under estimate what any one person can do with a good quality rifle.
take it to a match have fun, and learn
shoot to thrill
irish
oh it was matt.
  
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DonH
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #9 - Feb 7th, 2008 at 8:48am
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IMO, it kinda depends on why you want to shoot. If what you enjoy is to be ABLE to shoot along with good people and compete against yourself, to see how much you personally can improve, then shoot what you have or enjoy shooting. If you need to win to enjoy the sport, then it is a whole different matter. Not everyone (me included) is capable of winning. Most of us place somewhere down the list at the end of the day. That doesn't mean we get any less enjoyment from participating. For me, any day spent doing something which allows me the satisfaction of shooting old single shots is a good day. And if the rifle I happen to be shoting gives me particularpleasure, all the better.
  
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wildbill
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #10 - Feb 10th, 2008 at 2:13pm
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I too am a newbie to Schuetzen, but I am familiar with the Sharps. Got a couple myself. Lets start by saying that Shiloh Sharps at one time offered a Schutzen model rifle, when Wolfgang Droege owned it. The current owners do not offer it, as near as I can tell from thier literature. Shiloh did, however, build a schuetzen rifle last year for a fundraiser drawing to benefit the rebuilding of the Butte, Montana shooting house, a historic, original schutzen building.
   The original Sharps rifle company of historical note did build a few schuetzen rifles, but not very many. They are a rarity. The actions are big, and the side hammers are believed to not have the faster lock time of the centerally hung hammers of the Winchesters, Ballards, and Stevens.
   Maybe you can contact Shiloh Sharps in Montana and see if they have plans to offer a schuetzen model. I imagine if there is enough demand for them, they would build them. Heck, I'd shoot one just to be different!
  
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B1acksmith
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #11 - Feb 10th, 2008 at 8:13pm
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Couple of years ago I went to a BP SASS Clinic run by a rather famous person in the Long range and rifle building world.  Well I showed up with my new 45-70 74 Sharps and was looking forward to learning all about long range shooting. The first thing the instructor said was " I like to see people show up who have already lost by the choice of their rifles". I did not enjoy the rest of the class, but I still shoot and enjoy my Sharps even if it is not a Hepburn or Ballard.  Any well made gun in the hand of a good shot will win. I shoot buffalo matches with the sharps and long range with an original Peabody Creedmore 44-100. Both kick my butt by the end of the day, so for Schuetzen I would go with one of my martinis in a smaller caliber. Match the gun to the sport and to what you can shoot well and to heck with what people think.
  
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Joe_S
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #12 - Feb 10th, 2008 at 9:00pm
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That instructor doesnt know nearly as much as he thinks he does. He should know that the nut behind the stock is a lot more critical to sucess than the gun. Furthermore, he should have enough common courtesy to avoid insulting the people he is supposed to be helping. Someday, someone is going to show up for a match with the "wrong" rifle and kick his butt. This is not just my opinion, it is a fact. Joe S
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #13 - Feb 11th, 2008 at 9:25am
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Blacksmith, if your Sharps is either a Pedersoli or Shiloh then that 'instructor' was either quite ignorant or else very stupid or probably both. Pedersoli and Shiloh barrels and rifles are both very readily capable of winning any, repeat ANY, BPCR match in this country, period, end of discussion. The truth of this statement has been proven many hundreds (actually thousands) of times in the last 10-15 years, and is really not open to debate by any knowledgeable folks.

Obviously the 'instructor' was not very knowledgeable, besides being quite rude.

Would you care to share his identity?
Inquiring minds..........regards, Joe
  
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wildbill
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #14 - Feb 11th, 2008 at 10:33am
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I guess I'm a bit slanted myself, but SASS says alot to me. Not to bash thier sport, but they are intersted in cowboy shoot 'em ups and use single actions, shotguns, lever guns, etc. I know ALOT of folks who shoot Sharps and do very well with them in BPCR Sillouhete, Creedmore, and Buffalo matches. Some guys in SASS come to these matches and do well. That being said, I moved to Oregon from Montana a couple years ago, and there are not very many places in Western Oregon to shoot long range. I have to drive 150 miles east to Bend to participate every month. That's why I decided to get into Schuetzen, so I have another single shot sport to get into, that's a bit closer to my house. 
   The rifle that Richard McKinney is building for ASSRA will be a nice rifle. A trimmed down Freund patent Sharps action for a Schuetzen rifle.
  
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