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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sharps not good enough (Read 20775 times)
marlinguy
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #15 - Feb 11th, 2008 at 8:24pm
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I guess I'm a bit slanted myself, but SASS says alot to me. Not to bash thier sport, but they are intersted in cowboy shoot 'em ups and use single actions, shotguns, lever guns, etc. I know ALOT of folks who shoot Sharps and do very well with them in BPCR Sillouhete, Creedmore, and Buffalo matches. Some guys in SASS come to these matches and do well. That being said, I moved to Oregon from Montana a couple years ago, and there are not very many places in Western Oregon to shoot long range. I have to drive 150 miles east to Bend to participate every month. That's why I decided to get into Schuetzen, so I have another single shot sport to get into, that's a bit closer to my house. 
  The rifle that Richard McKinney is building for ASSRA will be a nice rifle. A trimmed down Freund patent Sharps action for a Schuetzen rifle.


Both Tri County in Sherwood, Or. and Douglas Ridlge in Barton, Or. have 1,000 yd. ranges. Douglas Ridge even sets aside a day each week strictly for long range shooters to practice on the 1,000 yd. range. If you're located anywhere near either range you should drop in and join. I belong to DR, but both are excellent clubs!
  
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westerner
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #16 - Feb 11th, 2008 at 9:18pm
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Marlinguy, 

Are there BPCR match's held at Douglas Ridge now?  I shot many a match there in the ninety's. 600 was the limit then.

                                                                       Joe.
  

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irish66
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #17 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 7:28am
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joe,
there is a 1000 rage up in columbus tx at yaupon creek.
go look at the website.
yauponcreek.org
cheers irish
  
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wildbill
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #18 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 10:15am
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Marlinguy, I'll look to see where Barton is. I asked around out here and alot of folks around Salem just looked at me like I was crazy when asked if there was a 1000yd range. I saw in the BPCR News the list of clubs that hold matches in Oregon, and Bend and Burns are the only ones listed there. Frankly, I like Bends' COSSA range. It's high, dry and lots of sagebrush. Reminds me of home! I'm flying back to Montana tomorrow for a match this coming weekend. Getting cabin fever, and need to hook up with my old shooting partners again.
  
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westerner
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #19 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 11:03am
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wildbill, I looked on the Douglas Ridge website. They dont have BPCR match's.  If I remember right, the highpower shooters had a problem with us fellas and our blunderbuss's stinkin up the place.

They can be a snooty troublesome bunch as I have shot with them in the past and witness'd it first hand. 

When I shot there, they only had enough room for 600. They did have a gong target up at 800.  We werent supposed to shoot at it. I did it anyway just to show the HP snoots that my blunderbuss would reach that far.  I'm probly the one that gottum all bent out of shape enough to kick us off the range.  They do shoot CBA.  Then you have to contend with haulin oxygen bottle's around for all the old coots on the line.  I'd be the one to trip on a hose and send one to the clinic. 

It was a great place to shoot, and there is , or was a nice bar in Estacada.  And motels.  If Marlinguy would go talk nice to them maybe they would let us shoot some BPCR match's there again.  I'm sure they wouldnt recognize me now.  Grey with hubblefocal glass's and hunched over  some.

We used to battle the Canadiac shooters there.  They were a lot of fun. There was at least a dozen of them that would come down from all over Canadia.  Most of them have gone to the big range now. John Urselesqeu is the only one still alive as far as I know. I hope I spell'd his name right.   

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Paul_F.
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #20 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 11:37am
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I don't know nothin' about Douglas Ridge specifically.. But I DO know that SOME Highpower ranges ban Black Powder Cartridge rifles because (true or not) of safety concerns stemming from a rather steeper impact trajectory causing an unsafe condition for the people in the pits... the bullets fall well short of the designed and designated impact area.

This may be more imagined at some ranges than real, but I recall shooting Highpower in Medford at the White City range (600yd), and recall some conversations in the pit with local club members that tried it (black powder) and were getting bullets impacting less then 10 feet beyond the target, and firing was stopped 'cause 10 feet is WAY too close when the ground is gravel and concrete!
Maybe that was 'cause the shooters didn't have enough oomph behind their bullets... but that's why Medford (at least 10 years ago) didn't run any black powder events.

Paul F.
  
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Joe_S
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #21 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 11:48am
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Blackmith,
Do you recall what the instructor recommended as a "proper" rifle ? I would be interested in knowing that. JOe S
  
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wildbill
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #22 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 2:04pm
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westerner wrote on Feb 12th, 2008 at 11:03am:
wildbill, I looked on the Douglas Ridge website. They dont have BPCR match's.  If I remember right, the highpower shooters had a problem with us fellas and our blunderbuss's stinkin up the place.

They can be a snooty troublesome bunch as I have shot with them in the past and witness'd it first hand. 

When I shot there, they only had enough room for 600. They did have a gong target up at 800.  We werent supposed to shoot at it. I did it anyway just to show the HP snoots that my blunderbuss would reach that far.  I'm probly the one that gottum all bent out of shape enough to kick us off the range.  They do shoot CBA.  Then you have to contend with haulin oxygen bottle's around for all the old coots on the line.  I'd be the one to trip on a hose and send one to the clinic. 

It was a great place to shoot, and there is , or was a nice bar in Estacada.  And motels.  If Marlinguy would go talk nice to them maybe they would let us shoot some BPCR match's there again.  I'm sure they wouldnt recognize me now.  Grey with hubblefocal glass's and hunched over  some.

We used to battle the Canadiac shooters there.  They were a lot of fun. There was at least a dozen of them that would come down from all over Canadia.  Most of them have gone to the big range now. John Urselesqeu is the only one still alive as far as I know. I hope I spell'd his name right.  

                                                                             Joe.

           



Westerner, I know the folly of the Hipower guys! My last club in Montana, those clowns used to shoot at our gongs on the sly, and we'd raise hell with the Hipower director. His answer was that they had the right to shoot at them, so we told him that the Hipower division could pay to replace all our shot-up gongs! That's alot of 3/8 steel to pay for, let alone come up with. The guys in Bend at the COSSA range came up with a clever way to stop that nonsense. They put desert camo netting on all the gongs. Can't shoot what you can't see! But it is funny to see the look on some of those smug faces when they see those old Black Powder rifles shooting so well at 1000yds, with peep sights, no less!!
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #23 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 4:35pm
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I don't know nothin' about Douglas Ridge specifically.. But I DO know that SOME Highpower ranges ban Black Powder Cartridge rifles because (true or not) of safety concerns stemming from a rather steeper impact trajectory causing an unsafe condition for the people in the pits... the bullets fall well short of the designed and designated impact area.

This may be more imagined at some ranges than real, but I recall shooting Highpower in Medford at the White City range (600yd), and recall some conversations in the pit with local club members that tried it (black powder) and were getting bullets impacting less then 10 feet beyond the target,
Paul F.


This is an old wive's tale that can easily be disproven by a few minutes' examination of the trigonometry involved. Merely take the sight 'come-ups' between 900 and 1000 yds and use that dimension along with the 1000-yd distance to figure the mean angle of flight (at 950 yds), then do the same for the 'come-ups' between 1000 and 1100 yds if available. You get the picture. The come-ups will vary with each load but I bet you'll find that it's highly improbable that any of this ever happened for real. I don't lke to use the expression 'impossible' but I'm very tempted here.

I've forgotten the exact figures for the only time I ever bothered to run the calcs but seem to recall an angular figure of around 8 degrees, that is, a bullet at 1000 yds would pass over the butts at an angle of ~ 8 degrees below the horizontal. Actually, since the arc of the trajectory follows an asymptotically-curved path, the angle would be slightly greater, say ~ 10 degrees below the horizontal.

According to the actual figures, the butts would hafta be about a foot high for the bullet to hit 10 feet beyond them. So, with all due respect to the tale-tellers, I've gotta conclude that leprechauns or fairies or something like that was to blame. Or could it have anything to do with adult beverages, perhaps?
This is JMO, I await correction and chastisement, Joe
  
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Brent
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #24 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 4:46pm
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Sorry, no chastisement coming your way.  I've done these figures before and the drop is less steep than that.  Old wives tales are nigh immortal in the shooting world however and never really die or even fade away.

Brent
  
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boats
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #25 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 4:52pm
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JD the first time North Carolina National Guard let us use the Camp Butner range for BP Rifles we had to deal with the same thing.

There fear was at 1000 yards the trajectory would cause a hazard to the pit crew.  Not so much as hitting people sitting on the benches but hitting the machinery and causing injury from it.  We ran some test with 45/70's and while the shots impacted the berm lower than high power it was not enough lower to cause any saftey issues.

I did not volenteer to be in the first relay pit crew though. Everyone came out unscared and took my turn 2nd relay.

Boats
  
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #26 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 4:58pm
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What is it about High power guys anyway, Wish I had a dollar for every one who showed up at our monthy HP Silouette matches with his pet M whatever and told us how accurate it was. With all those parts moving arround on recoil. And went away hitting 5 or 6 critters.  Best thing about HP shooters is when shooting Schuetzen offhand next to one on the 200 yard target. They get real quiet real quick.

Boats
  
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #27 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 6:47pm
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Don't want to give his name, but lets say I was looking forward to learning from someone who is known for his sights and barrels.  He also said Sharps just were not as good as center hung hammers on Hepburns, high walls, and ballards.  I see his point, but also know that alot of BPCR matches have been won by Sharps and my Pedisoli has won some (not in my hands yet).  I think it was more a case of "I'm old, famous, and opinionated.

I am not that anamored with SSAS much anymore. It is still fun, but some of their rules I don't like. ASSRA, BPCR, and my muzzleloading shoots are where I am going to keep most of my energy.
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #28 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 8:43pm
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Wildbill,
Your previous post didn't mention Blackpowder, just that you didn't know of any places in Oregon to shoot long range without going to Bend area. 
That aside, I've attended the longrange matches at Douglas Ridge, (yes it is a 1,000 yd. range now, and has been for years!) and watched them shoot Sharps, Rolling Blocks, and many other older style singleshots right alongside modern rifles, or military rifles like Garands, and they shot black powder while others shot smokeless. 
The BP shooters were courteous enough to shoot on the downwind end of the line, but they were definitely shooting BP, and having a lot of fun competing against the military and modern arms shooting smokeless. 
Barton is about 15 miles east of Portland, and Tricounty (Sherwood) is about 15 miles SE of Portland.
Westerner,
I miss the full blown BPCR matches that DRRC used to have every 4th of July! I never competed, but I always attended to watch, as it was a fun shoot, with great folks. 
I heard it was ended not because of the BP, but rather because some dolt thought we were in violation of some local ordinance by letting folks camp on the property overnight. Later when it was discovered that it was OK, they had already PO'ed the BP folks, and they couldn't get it going again. At least that's the story I got when I asked the powers that be.-Vall
  
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Re: Sharps not good enough
Reply #29 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 9:58pm
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lets not be too hard on the highpower shooters, after all, they are shooters, and many of them are pretty darn good. Besides that, most are gentlemen and good sports. I shoot in a military rifle league once a month, Feb-Oct, and there are some really good shooters there.  Just for kicks, I shoot my Trapdoor quite often and nobody laughs. I cant drill the X ring like some of the mouse guns and m1As, but it is very compeitive, even in rapid fire. Bolt guns and single shots shoot two strings of five shots in a minute for rapid fire, which is easily done with a trapdoor at least with a little practice. I used to shoot ten shots in a minute right along with the mouse guns but I decided there was too much chance of an accidental firing.  at any rate, the point is we shoot shoot what we like, not what somebody else likes. Joe S
  
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