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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall (Read 17986 times)
creedmoormatch
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Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Jan 11th, 2008 at 1:26pm
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I am interested in learning the difference between the action on the Sharps 1875 falling block and the Browning (patent later assigned to Winchester) High Wall action falling block.  It seems, initially, that the Sharps (1875) action has an advantage with the side hammer out of the way of the chamber/bore axis.  I am suggesting that for a black powder shooter who cleans between shots, there is better access for the cleaning rod insertion into the breech.  But are there other over riding design feature of one rifle's action over the other's?  Strength, durability, ease of disassembly, availability of replacement parts, etc., etc. ? ? ?  Thanks much !
  
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Brent
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #1 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 2:54pm
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When you open an 85 Win, the hammer drops with the block until it is below the tang.  There is exactly no disadvantage in cleaning.   
 
Strength is a none issue, side hammers bother some over implied accuracy problems that I cannot document, and the 75's firing pin can be more prone to breakage according to the net wisdom.   

But for my money, the one overwhelming problem of the 75 relative to the 85 is that the former just can't hold a candle to the sleak beauty of the latter.  Not in a million years.  YMMV... 

Brent
  
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #2 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 4:58pm
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I don't know how you would measure it but lock time on the Browning designed 1885 action must be faster than the Sharp's. It's an accepted rule that center mounted hammers have accuracy advantages over side hammers too.

True ? who knows.

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J.D.Steele
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #3 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 6:43pm
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IMO.....

The Winchester is, hands down, no contest, a far, far better action in almost every way, in fact it's better in every way except one. The single instance in which the Sharps is superior is the drawbolt stock attachment. In point of fact the Winchester is designed to have a slight drawing action upon tightening the main tang screw, which would to some degree lessen the Sharps' advantage, but in actual practice this feature is almost always ignored by the stocker and so the typical high wall rifle does not have quite as rigid a buttstock mounting as the Sharps. Otherwise, and more especially in loading and unloading, the Winchester is noticeably and demonstrably superior. I could go into great detail about this for a long time but it's easier to cite Frank de Haas' Single Shot Rifles and Actions, a fine and indispensable part of any single shot lover's library.
JMO, regards, Joe
  
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38_Cal
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #4 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 7:20pm
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Umm...Joe, the 1875 Sharps is the sidehammer model.  To my mind, the only advantage that the Sharps might have is in cleaning when black powder is used, with less possibility of getting solvent/water into the works.  Bigger Sharps hammer=either a slower fall or the need for a much heavier spring.   

David
Montezuma, IA
  

David Kaiser
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Brent
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #5 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 9:00pm
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Joe, I hate to disagree with you but I don't know of any Sharps with a draw bolt unless you are talking the 78.  Does the 75 have one?  News to me, but now that I think about it, I really do not know as I have never had one apart.  But I don't think the Winchester lacks in quality because it is without one.   

Where the Sharps (74) is superior to the Winchester is in history.  The Sharps, after all, is the rifle that made the World safe for Winchester Smiley And that sort of history is everything when it comes to single shots.   

The hammer fall on a Sharps may be slow, but realistically only the rarest of circumstances is that difference going to be important.  In offhand competition, that difference can matter, but I don't see any evidence of it elsewhere.

All in all, the biggest difference between them is just how much more does one of them turn you on relative to the other?   

Me, I gotta have a couple of both.  And a few Ballards to boot!

Brent
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #6 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 10:08pm
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Wasn't Browning's 1879 patent/design supposed to be his response to his disatisfaction with the Sharps?  Undecided

At least HE thought the high-wall as he made it was better.  Wink

Froggie
  
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Brent
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #7 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 10:10pm
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Yes, it was.  And of course he did - he made it!   

Brent
  
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #8 - Jan 11th, 2008 at 11:10pm
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Green_Frog wrote on Jan 11th, 2008 at 10:08pm:
Wasn't Browning's 1879 patent/design supposed to be his response to his disatisfaction with the Sharps?  Undecided

At least HE thought the high-wall as he made it was better.  Wink

Froggie

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DonH
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #9 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 8:49am
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Green_Frog wrote on Jan 11th, 2008 at 10:08pm:
Wasn't Browning's 1879 patent/design supposed to be his response to his disatisfaction with the Sharps?  Undecided

At least HE thought the high-wall as he made it was better.  Wink

Froggie


I personally don't think comparison of the Sharps '74 and the Browning design are fair other than informatiion for a newcomer. I fully recognize the design genius of John Browning but if his design wasn't better than the Sharps he would have been an utter failure for two reasons: (1) the Sharps was a transitional design dating to pre-Civil war and (2) there is a distinct advantage in favor of the designer who has the older design in hand while he works to improve it! 
Those who just can't stand a side-hammer action will find the High Wall a thing of beauty compared to a Sharps '74. I have one of each and find the High Wall to be rather plain. Some firearms, particularly early cartridge era ones have a high degree of ROMANCE about them. Having a strong affinity for history this a large factor for me and an area where I find the Browning design lacking. But hey, if competition and pure ultimate accuracy is what you are after then skip the Walls and go straight for the Miller. As for aesthetics, beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I know because I think Sniders are just peachy! 
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #10 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 10:36am
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I believe this discussion started with a comparison of the Winchester with the Sharps 1875.

If I recall correctly, the 1875 action is merely the early sidehammer version of the striker-fired 1878 Borchardt. Again IIRC, both have drawbolts.

Perhaps I need to refer to my own copy of de Haas' book, am I the one that's missing something here?

How about it, creedmoormatch, which one did you reference?
Just curiious, Joe
  
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #11 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 10:56am
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I can't tell you how much faster Browning designed 1885's lock time is than a big side hammer.  I will say in offhand rifles lock time is the most important design feature.  If all else is equal lock time will separate rifles ability to score in offhand matches by a noticeable amount.

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Shooter_1
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #12 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 1:07pm
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Try shooting one of them side hammer guns left hand, not any fun at all, I'll take a Hi-Wall any day, much easer to handle and after shooting both I think the Hi Wall is design wise much more accurate. At least it is for me.
Shooter
  
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #13 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 1:31pm
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I disagree with Shooter_1 about the side hammer guns being difficult for lefties to shoot.  I have a Sharps 74 and a high wall, and don't have any trouble with the Sharps' hammer.  I qualify this by saying this is with a vernier tang sight.  A scope could be a problem, but I've never gone that way.

A bigger problem I've found is the tang sights themselves.  Markings only on the left side of the shaft, and interference of the windage knob with your finger or hand position.  Some brands are more lefty-friendly than others.

Of course there's the stock, but this isn't just an issue with one model of rifle.

Just one man's experience.

Paul
  
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DonH
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Re: Compare Design of Sharps 1875 vs. High Wall
Reply #14 - Jan 12th, 2008 at 7:29pm
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Quote:
I believe this discussion started with a comparison of the Winchester with the Sharps 1875.
JUst curiious, Joe


You are correct Joe, Guess I went down the wrong rabbit track. I will however, stick with what I said about Browning as both the 74 and 75 actions were in existence when he began his design, It is by far easier to take an existing action and look at what you don't like about it then think what yoou would do differently. It would be interesting if we could re-run history with Browning doing his thing 20 years earlier.

The lock time debate will never end but I will always believe there is no significant degree of mechanical accuracy capability between the two types but the difference lies in ease of shooting accurately with the faster lock time get the nod.
  
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