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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo (Read 10980 times)
frederick
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Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Nov 25th, 2007 at 10:43am
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What is that rifle Bob Heeren is shooting? Also, good to see so much match coverage. It's up to the clubs to submit; be nice to see some
load data.

Fred
  
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #1 - Nov 25th, 2007 at 2:19pm
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I should not speak for Bob but do shoot next to him   His rimfire rifle is a Low Wall,  Centerfire is a Miller.  Both equipped with 36x Weavers.  Bob does his own gunsmithing.

His set up offhand is as good as it gets

Boats
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #2 - Nov 25th, 2007 at 4:11pm
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To add to what boats said, the stock is of course one of Bob's own and the heavy barrel is decidedly non-standard.  In addition, I believe the hmmer is a skeletonized version of the original, while it may have been made by Bob as well.  The basic action is a smooth side flat spring action.  Maybe we can sweet talk Bob into describing or letting one of us describe his rifle(s) in more detail for the Journal.  They sure do get the job done for him in offhand events! 

Froggie
  
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #3 - Nov 25th, 2007 at 4:54pm
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Aaaahhhhhh Boats- look again! Bob shoots a Peregrine (the smaller action) in centerfire!

Willis
  

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MerwinBray
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #4 - Nov 25th, 2007 at 6:48pm
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Well, one thing is for sure, he shoots them well! That is a great picture, Martin deserves compliments on it!

I thought it was a great journal as well. I also enjoyed the last one and the article about the Patt rifles, neat old guns. Being a Wisconsin native, wish I could end up with one some day!
Merwin
  

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westerner
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #5 - Nov 25th, 2007 at 7:40pm
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singleshot wrote on Nov 25th, 2007 at 4:54pm:
Aaaahhhhhh Boats- look again! Bob shoots a Peregrine (the smaller action) in centerfire!

Willis


It look's like a flat side low wall to me.  I've never seen a small Peregrine action.   Undecided.

                                                                 Joe.
  

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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #6 - Nov 25th, 2007 at 8:25pm
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The rifle he is shooting (on his way to winning the mini-Hudson) is the low-wall rimfire rifle I discussed.  You can see a little of the Peregrine (small action, .32/.357 cal, IIRC) in the "rack" to the lower left of the photo.  Bob has a neat little pair of bars on his combination scope stand so he has both rifles at hand during a relay.  If conditions change or he just decides it's time, he can switch off and beat you with the OTHER rifle.  Wink  And yes, I'm sure it's a Peregrine, but the rest of the details are a little hazy.

Froggie
  
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #7 - Nov 25th, 2007 at 8:51pm
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Willis I think you are right about the Centerfire gun.  I don't know those newfangled actions well enough to tell one from another at a distance.  Whatever it is he shoots it very well. I know the scopes are both 36 x Weavers, he told me so.

You could go to school on Bob offhand and find the time well spent.

Boats
  
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #8 - Nov 25th, 2007 at 9:02pm
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Oh, now I see , me duh! Smiley

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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #9 - Dec 1st, 2007 at 2:00pm
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And what you think is his look of concentration is hiim gritting his teeth knowing my .458 WM is about to cut loose!    Shocked

GREAT Picture!

GREAT shooting!

GREAT attitude, "That thing is too loud.  Unecessary."  Cheesy
  

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Black_Prince
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #10 - Dec 4th, 2007 at 12:41pm
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Ditto what the BIG CAT said.  GREAT PHOTO!!  GREAT journal issue as the last few have been.  Thanks to the new editor and to those of you who contribute the great articles.  I have REALLY enjoyed the articles about the old shooters unions and the journey's of those shooters in California.   Those guys took shooting seriously and obviously had the time and money to do it world wide.  Those traditions are what draws my interest to this kind of shooting.  

In looking at the cover photo, I notice Bob is not wearing a shooting jacket that I am accustomed to using in standard NRA high power and rimfire events.  Being new to schutzen shooting, I don't know all the rules yet.  Are standard shooting jackets allowed in off-hand shooting events or does this vary with each club and event?  
  
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frederick
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #11 - Dec 4th, 2007 at 2:32pm
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Shooting jackets; current status is this:

International Single Shot Association (ISSA):  regional and international events do not permit shooting jackets.

American Single Shot Rifle Association(ASSRA): Shooting jackets are permitted at Etta Green, the national range. I don't know how most affiliated clubs handle this issue. (I only know of two shooters west of the Miss. that use jackets in schuetzen events)

Wyoming Schuetzen Union(WSU): Shooting jackets are permitted in this organizations "Open Class". Most of their shooters all shoot in a fairly
restricted "Traditional Class".

Opinion has it that a shooting jacket is worth from 50 to 150 points in
a 100 shot offhand match.

The big shoot is the International Shoot sponsored by the ISSA at Raton, NM each summer. This shoot attracts most of the talented shooters. 

I suggest that to maximize your opportunities to shoot that you abandon that jacket.

fred
  
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #12 - Dec 4th, 2007 at 4:27pm
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BP, if you will look more closely, that is not a shooting jacket at all.  Bob habitually shoots in a vest that resembles a shotgunner's vest.  It has mostly mesh body and a no-slip panel at the shoulder to insure a firm and consistent position for the rifle's butt plate.  IIRC, he was wearing this over one of his collection of habitually pro-Gun, anti-PC T-shirts.   Cool

Froggie
  
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leadball
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #13 - Dec 4th, 2007 at 5:39pm
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black_prince;
                   I understand the ASSRA rules to say that , shooting coats & pants are permitted at ANY match unless that club prohibits them.  They don't seem to be used much but IMO if someone wants to shoot all tied &bound in 90 degree weather 'go for it.' 
                                                     
  
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Black_Prince
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #14 - Dec 4th, 2007 at 5:53pm
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Thanks for the replies fellas. I am here to learn about schultzen shooting while coming from a different shooting game.  Frogie, I did notice Bob was NOT wearing a shoting jacket and it is why I asked about them.  I figured since he OBVIOUSLY has great form and what looks like a fine rifle, that he knows about jackets and since he didn't wear one, I figured they were not allowed.

Besides, the old time schultzen shooters didn't wear them, so why should I?   

  
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #15 - Dec 4th, 2007 at 7:21pm
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BP, just as an FYI, at most of the ASSRA matches that I have attended, from local ones like Chinquapin and Asheville to the Nationals at Etna Green, the sight of a contemporary shooting coat/jacket is pretty rare...most dress is pretty casual.  On the other hand no one is likely to condemn you if that is the way you want to shoot.

As far as the "old days," those guys would frequently shoot in three piece suits, complete with cravat and derby hat or straw skimmer.  Sometimes you would also see them wearing a shooting apron over that outfit.  My dear friend and mentor Charlie Dell would get into his version of that get-up from time to time, but I tend to go for an "old days lite" version, consisting of collarless shirt and vest with either my machinist's hat or a derby.  So you see, the choice is pretty open.  Oh yeah, don't forget the ever popular Bermuda shorts and T-shirt look.  Some of those matches are held in pretty hot weather!   Wink

Froggie
  
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frederick
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #16 - Dec 4th, 2007 at 7:56pm
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We look forward for you joining us in this most sophisticated and historic form of shooting.

fred
  
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #17 - Dec 5th, 2007 at 9:49am
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There is a school of thought that you shoot better offhand without a coat.  Tubb wears one but it's not strapped down tight.  He advocates the stickly pad for your buttplate, that's all.  With our Schuetzens and hook plates probably no reason for the pad.   

The best offhand shooters today are shooting NRA rules silouette and not using shooting coats. Vest with pads are pretty universal though

Boats
  
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Black_Prince
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #18 - Dec 5th, 2007 at 7:18pm
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Yep Boats, you are exactly right.  NRA is making a great effort to keep the silhouette shooting game traditional and not let it go to an equipment race that has screwed up so many other shooting games.  I applaud that effort and also ASSRA's attempt to keep this sport as traditional as it can be kept. It's another reason to NOT wear shooting jackets in schultzen matches as far as I am concerned.

No problem if others are allowed to do it and all the best to those who do.  It just isn't something that I am going to do. I like the way Bob is standing there in that cover photo.  The ole boy has class!
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Green_Frog
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #19 - Dec 5th, 2007 at 9:49pm
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BTW, that cover shot makes Bob look more distinguished than he really is!  He's just a good ole boy that likes to build guns and shoot them (and of course he does both very well.)  He is pragmatic about his shooting and builds guns that are in the spirit of the old schuetzen stylings, but is not afraid to branch out and try some new tricks as well, as witnessed by the stock and butt plate of his rifle.  He's definitely a man to watch.  Wink

A bit more about the picture.  It was taken by my friend and pistol shooting buddy Martin Miller.  He attended both of the "new" Chinquapin matches we have held at Brushy Mtn Club and has now gone out and bought a new .32-40 Winchester 'wall.  From seeing his pistol shooting abilities and what I know about him as a friend, I expect we'll be hearing things from him on the INside of the Journal in addition to hopefully seeing more of his fine photography...in addition, he took the CSV group shot also seen in the new Journal.  Now if we can just come up with some colorful screen name for him to use on this forum... Cheesy

Froggie
  
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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #20 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 7:41am
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Charlie,
who will take the pics next year if Martin is shooting? BTW, good thing that club photo is in Black and WHite, It's a scary bunch that way, can't imagine it in color!!
Merwin

Martins pics are very good, I have glossed over both discs several times, I think you can learn a lot about schuetzen just from his photos!
  

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Re: Journal Nov/Dec 2007, cover photo
Reply #21 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 9:03am
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Never fear, M-B.  I plan (and hope) that there will still be photographic record of each of out CVS matches even if it has to be a group effort between several of us.  There are several of us that take digital photos, so hopefully we can meld them onto a single disc for each participant.  It adds so much to the experience (and my failing memory  Wink) to have that photographic record of the event.  See you soon!

Froggie
  
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