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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand (Read 20325 times)
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #15 - Oct 29th, 2007 at 3:53pm
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Brent it depends on your routine.  

With a CF at 200 I shoot, glance through the spotting scope without coming out of position, and use the information from the bullets strike to make my next shot.  I am not playing the wind hardly at all. In fact I am trying to shoot all shots in the same wind as when sighting in. The scope is confirming my strike as it relates to hold and position.  Self coaching. Routine at 100 rimfire is exactly the same.

I can see 22 holes at 200 under most conditions but have to look carefully and study the target some. Combination of my eyes and scope set up.  My offhand BiPod is none to steady and handicaps the scope.  Spotting that carefully when it's not quick and easy would throw my routine off and scores would suffer.

If I was going to shoot rimfires at 200 offhand I would sight the rifle under the most likely condition on a plain white target.  Once I had the groups centered up would fire all shots quickly while that condition existed without looking at a scope at all.

Of course you have to shoot under the rules and ASSRA orange is what could be required.  If so and again under ASSRA rules  I would also wait until I was down range to count strikes on the paper, only keeping track of shots during the string with a loading block, not observing the target.  Any total misses can be re-fired under ASSRA so a notebook down range noting targets that need additional shots is the way to go.

Telling you all this theoreticly since I don't shoot rimfire matches at 200 and am not likely to. But if I had to that's what I would do.  

Could be an interesting match and if offered locally would probably give it a try. I still don't see any good reason to shoot CF and RF in the same one however. Would be just as interesting all rimfires on the line.

Boats
  
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Brent
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #16 - Oct 29th, 2007 at 4:03pm
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Well, Boats, I guess you could do it that way, but I sure don't know why.  The rest of us do not.  We shoot them like we would any other rifle.   

for some reason, you are making 200 yds shooting with a .22 much more difficult and onerous than it actually is.  I think you really ought to try it.  Experience would be helpful.   

I don't care what EG does so far as the RF, CF issue is concerned.  But if you wanted more participation, then allowing the common man and his .22 to step up to the line would, perhaps, increase participation.  It also does not take quite the same quality of rifle to shoot an offhand match that is required of a bench match so folks might get involved for a lot less money (a Browning low wall or a Martini 12/15 and a low-midpower scope).   

Brent


  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #17 - Oct 29th, 2007 at 4:20pm
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Gents,

A memorable event indeed...  Maybe there is some hope after all, if one of the 'don't like Martini' crowd is actually advocating the use of same - I quote: "a Browning low wall or a Martini 12/15 and a low-midpower scope".  Hmmm - maybe my presence on this forum is paying off after all.  Either that, or Brent has just caught a virus  Wink  The Martini virus probably!
Brent, sorry to make a bit of fun out of you, just couldn't help it....  I promise, you can try and have a go at converting me to some hogleg rifles!
FWIW, the addition of either a Swiss buttplate or some lead in the stockbolt hole with make the 12/15 (or the 15, for that matter...) into a capable offhand rifle.
FWIW, at the Bisley Imperial meet, there is a 200yd offhand comp with a rimfire category - excellent for your windreading skills.
  
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Brent
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #18 - Oct 29th, 2007 at 4:33pm
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Gert, My first decent .22 target rifle was a Martini - a 12 I think.  29.5 in barrel and relined by Parker Hale (so stamped on the crown).  It is the second most accurate rifle that I have ever owned (my low wall is first by a good bit).  It was a bit of a bad fit for me for an offhand rifle but otherwise quite fine.  Cost me, oh $350 or so, with quite adequate iron sights.  A lot of guys could get involved in the game for that sort of money, where as a #6 Ballard Rifles .38-55 might be a bit of a block for many others.   

Gert, you are right that the swiss butt on a Martini like that would help immensely.  The stock didn't need any more weight but some weight up front might help.  I leave my muzzlesled on when I shoot offhand and that gives me a bit more weight out front.   

A trigger bow palm ball for the left hand helps too.   

And the Martini has respectable lock time as well.  So, it's a right fine rifle - it would be competitive - maybe even from the bench - against all comers.   

The only real problem is that it leaves one's thumb fat and unexersized.  Not to mention it's not a pretty rifle.  But heck, we all have to start somewhere.   

Brent

PS.  If you ever get over this way, I promise I'll let you shoot my lowwall.  It might be the end of your fascination with those hump-backs.   
  
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #19 - Oct 29th, 2007 at 4:50pm
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Brent,

I just might make it out there across the pond one day...  Probably to shoot some LR BPCR matches, and - who knows - maybe with PP bullets.  After all, the 1st time I used mine in competition (midrange match in Bisley), I ended 3rd... - this was after a total of about 100 rounds of PP through the barrel, hardly any load development.  There just might be something to those diapers indeed, and I might even get the hang of a rifle with a centre-hung hammer.  But those sidehammer things, no thank you...
  
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #20 - Oct 29th, 2007 at 4:55pm
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Brent.

You are right I have never shot the Hudson match with a rimfire at 200 yards.  We shoot centerfire rifles at 200 and rimfires at 100 for the Hudson. It's a demanding match at 200 with a centerfire and no doubt more so with a .22.  Would be interested in the scores posted at your club when shooting 100 shots offhand at 200  yards.   

It could shooters & clubs not ASSRA affiliated have something we can learn from. But I would still want to see the scores.

Boats
  
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #21 - Oct 29th, 2007 at 4:56pm
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Guys remember everyone is entitled to there opinion! Undecided
Right or wrong! Huh  So don`t get mad a each other just because you all don`t agree with each other!
Remember that what makes the World go round! Roll Eyes
  

Hugs & Kisses
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Brent
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #22 - Oct 29th, 2007 at 4:57pm
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You would not be thinking about the possible world match next fall  that may be held in Lodi, WI?   

I'm hoping to be there, but has hellacious bad timing.  It is about 4.5 hrs away.

Don't knock the sidehammers.  They work rather well after a fashion - and hold the two highest scores ever shot at Lodi in the long range competition.  But any hammer is a good hammer.

Brent
  
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Peterson22
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #23 - Oct 29th, 2007 at 8:19pm
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A couple of questions:

1.  The fellow who shot those marvelous scores at 200 yds w/ 1.5' centers, did he do that w/ a scope?   

2.  One man in another thread asked about .22s and was roundly put down and I ask why?  Isn't the .22 a handicap?  All forms of shotgun shooting put a gauge or shot charge restriction above which you may not go.  However an Italian trapshooter once won a world cup in a 12 gauge event with a fine 197x200 at international trapshooting with a 20 ga. Perazzi.  So, I ask why not?  We need to preclude those who would take unfair advantage not those who seek additional handicaps.  Just a thought.



  
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #24 - Oct 30th, 2007 at 12:00pm
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Quote:
2.  One man in another thread asked about .22s and was roundly put down and I ask why?  Isn't the .22 a handicap?  All forms of shotgun shooting put a gauge or shot charge restriction above which you may not go.  However an Italian trapshooter once won a world cup in a 12 gauge event with a fine 197x200 at international trapshooting with a 20 ga. Perazzi.  So, I ask why not?  We need to preclude those who would take unfair advantage not those who seek additional handicaps.  Just a thought.


A voice of reason amidst the wilderness of blind rules adherence and EXclusionism. If you're worried that the little RF will win, then simply don't award the RFs any prizes in a CF match. No problem, usually, and it allows more participation.

And more participation IS what we're all after, is it not?

BTW the preceding suggestion assumes that real prizes are awarded at EG, and not just merely the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. Kinda like playing poker for funsies or indulging in excessive self-abuse, it just ain't very interesting by itself and could IMO be ever so much more fun with a little more spice.
Regards, Joe
  
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #25 - Oct 30th, 2007 at 12:33pm
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From my experince shooting at EG, there is nothing preventing you from shooting a .22RF during a CF match, you just are not eligible for awards for CF matches. Right now, there is a 200yd anysight .22 bench non-reentry match, the 100yd mini Hudson re entry match, a 50yd re-entry match and the 50yd Stitch re-entry match. So we do shoot .22LR during the CF matches. They just don't compete in the same match. All other matches are CF. But if you want to shoot a .22LR in one of the other matches, have at it. Just remember it is not a valid target to turn in for awards 

The only problem that could come up but I have never seen it happen is if we ran out of spots for the CF shooters and you were only shooting a rimfire and you had shot the 200yd match, you could be asked to give up your spot. That would only be after everyone was asked if someone was done shooting and wouldn't mind giving up their bench for someone who had not shot. If you were a new shooter, I'm sure you would never be asked to give up a bench.
  
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #26 - Oct 30th, 2007 at 2:18pm
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Brent,

Looking at it - not sure I can make it though, sure would like to!  Otherwise it will be the 2009 one from the other organisation (WLRHSA) which is also supposed to be in the US.  Any specifics already known about the Lodi match? (Dates especially)
BTW, I know those hogleg rifles will shoot, it's just I always associate them with those old-fashioned muzzlestuffers, converted to be loaded from the rear...
  
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #27 - Oct 30th, 2007 at 3:58pm
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Yes, Sanctioned. I guess that is different than sponsor.

The Worldcreedmoor is covered by the insurance that covers the ASSRA and any shoot the ASSRA sanctions.

I guess it saves bunch of cash not having to get a yearly policy.

Guess the only mis spoken word was sponsored and sanctioned.
And the ASSRA has done this for many years.
  
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #28 - Oct 30th, 2007 at 11:22pm
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Brent, the rules of the ASSRA currently don't permit .22 l.r. to be used in the centerfire matches.  If you really want to compete with your .22 at 200 yards in head-to-head matches with centerfire rifles, go to the ISSA (also an ASSRA affiliated organization) and shoot in their matches.  The website is (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links). and the rules permitting .22 l.r. rifles in c.f. matches are posted on line.  The closest matches to you (at Ames, IA) are probably going to be in Eau Claire, Wisconsin and Grand Junction, Colorado.   

David
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David Kaiser
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frederick
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Re: .22 rimfire at 200 yds. offhand
Reply #29 - Oct 31st, 2007 at 8:49am
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A formal request has been made to the proper ASSRA officals to bring up the question of .22 rimfires competing in centerfire matches. Proposal would give ASSRA local clubs the option of allowing rimfires.
Most local clubs have limited shooting dates and by allowing rimfires hopefully new shooters would be attracted. 

fred
  
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