Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Scope Choice (Read 9999 times)
plumloco
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 139
Location: Manassas ,VA
Joined: May 20th, 2004
Scope Choice
Sep 24th, 2007 at 11:31am
Print Post  
Hello All,
    Looking for some guidence! I'm getting close with my rifle project.
.32 miller on a Brochardt. I will start off with a bench rifle first. Want to know what type scope I should be looking at. Please don't say Unertl!!
Pockets too shallow!!!  I also plan on having a offhand stock made for the same rifle. I have a Fecker 14x. Will this set up work for offhand?
Thanks Plumloco (plumconfused)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Brent
Ex Member


Re: Scope Choice
Reply #1 - Sep 24th, 2007 at 11:39am
Print Post  
A 14x Fecker might be perfect!  Mine is 10 or 12x I think.  Sort of depends on what you like.  Anyway, it is very hard to beat a Fecker.   

Brent
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
KAF
Ex Member


Re: Scope Choice
Reply #2 - Sep 24th, 2007 at 12:21pm
Print Post  
Years ago I asked some shooters: "Why do you use a 36X scope?"

The answer was, "Because I don't have a 40X"

I used to stear clear of a higher power scope, until I tried a STS 30x.
Even offhand I used it and sgot the best OH score I ever shot and got a second place medal.

There are some good buys on scopes @

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)


Something I learned, spend as much as you can afford for good eqipment the FIRST time. Or you'll end up paying more for the learning process.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
QuestionableMaynard8130
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4144
Location: Benton  Harbor MI
Joined: Apr 17th, 2004
Re: Scope Choice
Reply #3 - Sep 24th, 2007 at 1:49pm
Print Post  
IN my opinion, scope power/resolution requirements  will depend on what you are doing with the gun and also what calibre you are shooting.  obviously with a .32 Miller cartridge you are talking pretty much schuetzen, so longer range is not an issue.  however a 32 cal. hole, especially if you are shooting at black ringed targets, needs more "looking at" than a larger hole.  I have found that for my own vison conditions 12-14x works pretty good for 38 and larger but I have had a hard time seeing .32 holes, especially under adverse conditions.   With the .22s anything under 24x is useless to me and the investment in my 40x Mitchell was the best (and most expensive single purchase) I've made to date.

another factor is whether you intend on using the same scope for both bench and offhand---that opens a whole 'nother keg of worms!
  

sacred cows make the best burger
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7626
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Scope Choice
Reply #4 - Sep 24th, 2007 at 3:19pm
Print Post  
I think about it modern vs traditonal.   

If Traditonal is your direction externals are the way to go and Fleckers are generaly less expensive than Unertils. Offhand I use a pair of 20's one Unertil and one Lyman. The Unertil is a little fat for offhand, sits too high on the rifle.   And a 12 Unertil on my 38/55 offhand Black Powder gun. It kicks more and needs longer eye relief.  12 will not shoot as high a score as a 20 offhand but compromise is what you have to accept sometimes.

Modern offhand shooters use at least 20 x and many use more,  Our clubs best offhand Shooter uses a pair of 36 x Weavers on his Miller 32 and rimfire offhand schuetzens.   

My modern scope offhand guns are all Silouette rifles and carry Leopold 6.5x20's which never leave 20x  My old one on a 03 Springfield from 20 years ago carrys a Weaver 16x  That shows progression in custom. If I was starting fresh in modern rifle silouette I would use a 36 x for sure.

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Retired Ex-Shooter

Posts: 4138
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: Scope Choice
Reply #5 - Sep 24th, 2007 at 4:09pm
Print Post  
Yes the greater the magnification the better (up to a point).

Scopes over 20-24x really start to pick up the mirage.

A good thing if you want to read mirage, a bad thing if you cannot see the target hardly at all.

So sometimes a variable scope is the way to go.

However Colleen Molendyk uses a fixed 36x scope and she is extremely hard to beat either off the bench or offhand (even when there is massive mirage running).

After you determine if you want to participate in competitions that require external or allow internal adjustment, you should also pick up a good quality scope that also has sight adjustment repeatability, fine cross hairs and/or sub-minute dot, good brightness and clarity. These charachteristics are just as important as magnification.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hold Center
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 36
Location: Florida
Joined: Jan 14th, 2007
Re: Scope Choice
Reply #6 - Sep 24th, 2007 at 10:23pm
Print Post  
I recently purchased a Redfield 3200 in 20X on ebay and I'm delighted with it for rimfire bench shooting.  I paid $350 and the scope was about 93%. Compared to the Unertl I'd have to pay $800 plus to get the same condition.  I wanted it to look authentic and the 3200 does that plus it's got great glass and positive clicks.   

I use a 12X Lyman STS that I've had for years for Offhand.  Can't spot shots but the higher powers overpower my concentration.  I don't really want to see the legs on a fly on my target, I just want to hold the crosshair in the center and make every effort to squeeze it off.  Just remember, a 30 power magnifies your every movement 30 times, as well as the target!   Roll Eyes

My 2 cents worth,
Bill (Hold Center)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
38_Cal
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2248
Location: Montezuma, Iowa
Joined: Apr 27th, 2005
Re: Scope Choice
Reply #7 - Sep 24th, 2007 at 11:07pm
Print Post  
I'm with Bill on this one!  I get seasick shooting offhand when the power's too high!   Embarrassed

David
Montezuma, IA
  

David Kaiser
Montezuma, IA
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chrisj
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 91
Location: Iowa
Joined: Jan 11th, 2006
Re: Scope Choice
Reply #8 - Sep 24th, 2007 at 11:41pm
Print Post  
I used to use a 12 power scope indoors and a 24 power scope outdoors. (All offhand).  Then My son and my daughter took up shooting, so my daughter got the 10x and my son the 12x.  Which left me with the 24x to use both indoors and out.  I think the higher power has helped indoors, and not changing back and forth has helped outdoors.

I think the secret to not getting vertigo with the higher power is to concentrate on the target rather than the crosshairs.

Chris
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
DonH
Ex Member


Re: Scope Choice
Reply #9 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 5:24am
Print Post  
Quote:
 Just remember, a 30 power magnifies your every movement 30 times, as well as the target!   Roll Eyes)


This is a psychological thing 'cause the wobble is the same size as it was with lower or no magnification. Just because you see it more doesn't mean your actual "wobble area" is larger.

As to the mirage issue with higher power scopes, that too may be a compromise. If you need the higher magnification to see the target clearly then you have to accept that mirage will at times be an issue. Take the recommendations given and use them along with your physical, economic, etc. restraints and make the choice which best fits your situatiions. If you have to sell the rifle to afford the scope it won't help your shooting a bit.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7626
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Scope Choice
Reply #10 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 8:19am
Print Post  
Plum

Some good advice here on magnification.  I think one of  your questions was price vs suitablity for Schuetzen.  Since Schuetzen is shot at the same distance the whole match scope adjustments are not a critical issue.  Adjustments are one thing thats better about the more expensive scopes. 

Inexpensive scopes can work very well though.  I have a closet full of target scopes and can say some of the Imports work as good as the high dollar models.  My Airgun carrys a Weaver fixed power 15x. Used to have it on a smallbore silouette gun.  It cost 150 bucks is well over 10 years old and performs perfectly.  While I don't own one I see a lot of our competitors using the newer imported Weavers in High power.  I suspect they are the best value in a high performance target scope.

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40_Rod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Extremism in the persuit
of accuracy is not a
vice

Posts: 4285
Location: Knoxville, TN
Joined: Apr 20th, 2004
Re: Scope Choice
Reply #11 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 10:07am
Print Post  
Finally something that Brent and I agree on! Feckers are a great scope use it. If after the first year you feel that you need a higher power scope you can send it to Ackerman and have it pushed 60%.   
The one thing that I will caution you on is your choice of cartridge with a Borchardt. If you are using the Miller long ( 357 Max tapered to 32) you should be alright. If you are using the Miller Short (357 mag tapered to 32) you will find it a real pain to get the case into the chamber. I found this out the hard way with a High Wall chambered in 32X357 Dell. 

40 Rod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
3sixbits
Ex Member


Re: Scope Choice
Reply #12 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 11:36am
Print Post  
Buy once and be done with it. You have to make-up your mind if you want to go long scope or short. For the money and the fact that the Sightron wins in a lot of benchrest competition just about answers for a lot of shooters.

Shop the net for a price on one and you will be vary surprised. 

The fact they have the best internal adjustments should in no way influence your choice.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Brent
Ex Member


Re: Scope Choice
Reply #13 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 11:53am
Print Post  
40_Rod wrote on Sep 25th, 2007 at 10:07am:
Finally something that Brent and I agree on!


Sorry that you find that so amazing.


With regards to an all-around scope, I have been occasionally discussing accuracy with the .22 benchrest crowd.  Very interesting people who almost exclusively shoot at 50 yds and very rarely 100 yds.  When asked about shooting at 200 yds, the couple, few that had tried it found that most internal scopes did not give them the range of adjustment required for internal adjustable scopes.  This could be corrected with various alterations of mounts and shims, but then rezeroing for short ranges became problematic again.   

In a nutshell, with rainbow trajectories keep in mind that some scopes may not be capable of all the ranges you wish so shoot with anemic cartridges that we tend to use.   

Brent

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bnice
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1894
Location: Iowa
Joined: Nov 30th, 2006
Re: Scope Choice
Reply #14 - Sep 25th, 2007 at 12:34pm
Print Post  
True, short scopes have shorter range of adjustment, but if you use the Burris signatures you can ussualy find a bushing combination to allow you to go from 50 ft. to 200 yard. (you can also do it with regular shimming). And that is something to look at before buying (moa of adjustment). I prefer a varible power scope, but I like a scope that will give me higher power as well. The smallest I have is 6.5X20 but I really prefer 8x32 (or higher). My lowest I ever go is 18, but my wife will go as low as 12 on her guns. If you are having concentration issues it helps to be able to lower the power, if not it sure is nice to see it up close.  My perfect scope would be a 20x40, anyone have one other then maybe Premier reticle?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint