Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Question about mirage (Read 9336 times)
cat1870
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 92
Location: utah
Joined: Aug 7th, 2007
Question about mirage
Sep 19th, 2007 at 5:45pm
Print Post  
Anyone have any advise on doping mirage?

We are shooting out to 800 yds at a steel buffalo using .45-70's & blackpowder.  Everything is from a bench & sand bagged.
It's not an event, just shooting for fun & load developement,
We have a spotting scope & are shooting at a 24 inch bull on the buff.

Mirage is driving us nuts.
« Last Edit: Sep 20th, 2007 at 10:22am by cat1870 »  

SASS Life member & NRA Life member
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Brent
Ex Member


Re: Question about mirage
Reply #1 - Sep 19th, 2007 at 5:51pm
Print Post  
hold into the mirage like you would hold into the wind.

Brent
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7626
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Question about mirage
Reply #2 - Sep 20th, 2007 at 6:08am
Print Post  
If you can see it good it's good stuff to watch.  I can't count on Mirage since my spoting scope and ranges I shoot don't make it obvious often

Get a day it's running and visable try shooting with your rifle on mechanical zero holding center and see were the bullet hits.  Then if the mirage shows a change shoot another and observe the strike. Spend a couple of sessions just working our what it does and looks like and you have a tool that may be valuble 

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Old-Win
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1738
Location: Minnesota
Joined: Nov 24th, 2005
Re: Question about mirage
Reply #3 - Sep 20th, 2007 at 8:49am
Print Post  
Cat, you don't describe what type of shooting you're doing.  If it's a short timed event, like shilouette, you will have to make adjustments as your spotter reads them.  This will only come from experience.  If your shooting a timed long range event (30-45) minutes to get your string off, you have a little luxury in waiting out shifting conditions. I watch the closest flag, the 600 yd flag and the mirage.  Try to make your shot when all 3 are consistent to your previous shots.  In other words, make all your shots under similar conditions.  Never shoot in a boil unless you absolutely have too. If you start running out of time, you will have to read the conditions and adjust your sights accordingly.  I've shot long range events at Harris, Lodi and Ben Avery and it seems that each range has their little quirks that you pick up from experience.  Shooting gong matches out west are different because of the little knolls and ravines that the targets are placed on.  Watch the grass near the target.  
If it's 200yd shooting from a bench, I have no clue.  Can you see mirage at that distance??

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cat1870
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 92
Location: utah
Joined: Aug 7th, 2007
Re: Question about mirage
Reply #4 - Sep 20th, 2007 at 10:23am
Print Post  
We are shooting out to 800 yds at a steel buffalo using .45-70's & blackpowder.  Everything is from a bench & sand bagged.
It's not an event, just shooting for fun & load developement,
We have a spotting scope & are shooting at a 24 inch bull on the buff.

Mirage is driving us nuts.
  

SASS Life member & NRA Life member
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Brent
Ex Member


Re: Question about mirage
Reply #5 - Sep 20th, 2007 at 10:27am
Print Post  
If it is mirage off the ground and not off of your gun barrel, just make sure it is always running the same way and at about the same speed when you shoot.  You should learn to compensate for it, just as you would wind. I'm not sure the two things are really any different.   

Brent
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
4227
Ex Member


Re: Question about mirage
Reply #6 - Sep 20th, 2007 at 2:29pm
Print Post  
Best resource out there. Warren Page's book  "Precision Shooting"  Chapter "Shooting thru the swimming pool"  Get a copy, read it, reread it. A week or so later read it again.    Smiley Mirage really is your friend, shows you what the wind (air) is doing. Remember that the air you are shooting thru is MOVING.  Practice, Practice, Practice!!!   4227 Kiss
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
notlwonk
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 160
Location: Coventry CT
Joined: Dec 18th, 2006
Re: Question about mirage
Reply #7 - Sep 20th, 2007 at 5:12pm
Print Post  
Old-Win wrote on Sep 20th, 2007 at 8:49am:
Never shoot in a boil unless you absolutely have too. 




Just wondering why you wouldn't shoot in a boil? My understanding is that a boil is no wind or a 6/12 o'clock wind.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7626
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Question about mirage
Reply #8 - Sep 20th, 2007 at 8:49pm
Print Post  
I don't know how your buffalo is set up but I think the ground needs to be fairly flat and uniform firing line to target for mirage to be usefull.  If there is a drop or gully of some sort were the bullet flys high over ground or grass I have not been able to use Mirage much.  Our clubs Silouette range is set up that way. the 500 meter backstop has never shown much mirage.

On formal 600 yard ranges like in the Military I have used it a lot, could be I just had time to look.

But Jim hit it right, no matter what it looks like firing a shot on a sighter target and observing the strike is the way to find out.

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
4227
Ex Member


Re: Question about mirage
Reply #9 - Sep 20th, 2007 at 10:44pm
Print Post  
I just received a nice note from Phill asking about the book I mentioned and I apologize as I named the wrong book. The correct book is titled "The Accurate Rife" by Warren Page. I just googled that title and came up with 13 hits so the book is out there and available. Chapter 14 is the wind/mirage chapter. 
Why don't you shoot in a "boil"?     Undecided      
As Mr. H & K said, go ahead and try
it. experience is the best teacher (I told you not to eat that!)  Cry
There is no telling where you might find your bullet hole.  Shoot ONLY if you MUST!.   Sad 
Life Is Short, Give It Your Best Shot.   4227    Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
3sixbits
Ex Member


Re: Question about mirage
Reply #10 - Sep 21st, 2007 at 4:06am
Print Post  
I tried to answer this hours ago, my key board crapped out and had to buy a new one.

The best reading material for shooting in the mirage is available from the NRA, reprints of the AMU shooting manuals.

Spotting scope, focus your scope on the mirage not on the target.

Find out how to make a mirage board and use it.

Mirage is not always going to tell you the direction the wind is coming from! 

Mirage, learn all you can about it. It's always here with us. Even at -70 below zero. At night with no sun out the effects of mirage can still be seen.

You can see your bullets going through the mirage at long distances, by the use of your spotting scope.

Mirage can be a vary helpful tool if you know how to read "mirage".
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GWarden
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 317
Location: Marshalltown   Iowa
Joined: Apr 18th, 2004
Re: Question about mirage
Reply #11 - Sep 21st, 2007 at 7:27pm
Print Post  
If this site is to help one another and for us to learn, making a statement "Go ahead and shoot in it and find out" to Notlwonk's question doesn't seem helpful. 
For the new shooter explaining things would be helpful,so when they do shoot in it they will know what to expect and will help them learn faster.
Bob
  

Game Warden: what boys dream of being and old men wish they could have been
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
4227
Ex Member


Re: Question about mirage
Reply #12 - Sep 21st, 2007 at 7:53pm
Print Post  
Bob, I agree with you to a point    Grin    (If this site is to help one another and for us to learn, making a statement "Go ahead and shoot in it and find out" to Notlwonk's question doesn't seem helpful.)  However some things must be experienced for one's self.    Roll Eyes

When I was shooting for the Army Rifle Team I had instructors/coaches tell us not to shoot in a boil.  But they had us try it just so we KNEW what might happen if we did.    Embarrassed

Of cause the effect differs depending on the distance and other conditions but usually your shot will print high or even off the target as the mirage makes the target appear where it is not.  IF you must shoot because of time running out or what ever, look at the mirage thru your spotting scope, try and calculate how hard it is boiling and sight accordingly, usual low.   Smiley

I thought I knew how to shoot before I got selected to shoot for the Army but that's where I really learned. We shot 5 days a week all day, Saturdays I coached the Juniors and Sundays I shot pistol, trap or skeet.  Hard work but fun duty.     Cool

  Most of this in Panama Canal Zone.  4227
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jfeldman
ASSRA Board Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1091
Location: Imperial Beach, Ca
Joined: Nov 5th, 2005
Re: Question about mirage
Reply #13 - Sep 21st, 2007 at 8:20pm
Print Post  
Hello all
As Mr. 4227 said:
"the mirage makes the target appear where it is not."  
This is the one thing that began to help me understand mirage a little bit.  Still a lot to learn tho!
Regards, Joe
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GWarden
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 317
Location: Marshalltown   Iowa
Joined: Apr 18th, 2004
Re: Question about mirage
Reply #14 - Sep 22nd, 2007 at 5:08pm
Print Post  
4227
You did exactly what is needed, you explained what will happen if one shoots the "boil". This tells the shooter that has never done it what to expect when they go and try shooting those conditions- they know what to expect. Thanks for your reply.
bob
  

Game Warden: what boys dream of being and old men wish they could have been
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint