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Breech Seater - break open action, again (Read 6019 times)

Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3871 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Breech Seater - break open action, again Sep 4^th, 2007 at 6:17am	Print Post
	Now that I've got my .357 barrel for my H&R handi-rifle, I NEED to do a breech seater. I actually found (for $5 at the Hillsville Gunshow and Flea Market) a STEEL scope rail for it. The throat is enormously long, hence it will chamber .357 Maximum although marked for Mag's. (200 grain bullets will engrave and have CLEARANCE between the base and the mouth of the .357 Mag brass.) Has anyone attempted this or have seen one that works well?

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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MerwinBray Oldtimer Offline Aw Gees Posts: 936 Location: Kansas City, KS Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seater - break open action, again Reply #1 - Sep 4^th, 2007 at 6:32am	Print Post
	I have not done this, however, my Cousin who you met at Brushy Mt. has been talikng about trying the same thing. He had a .22hornet handi rifle at that shoot and wants to get the .357 barrel and try breech seating in it. I, myself, several years ago in a mad attempt at recreating the long dead Ballard .38 extralong, used a NEF 20 gauge as a basis. I bought a TJ liner in .375 dia and lined the shotgun. I bought a .357 max reamer and hand reamed it. I had the little rapine .375 heeled mould for it. It does fairly well w/BP in my short yard range. I started wondering what would happen if I breech seat the thing with a heavier and longer 38-55 bullet. Once I get my mould I have on order, I plan on trying it. I will only use BP in that gun because of the action being for a shotgun and the cautions I have read about the limitations of it. I do have a H&R 1871 Buffalo rifle but haven't tried to put my "38 X-long barrel on it, but the thought has occured. That action would handle smokeless breech seated loads. Interested in how it goes! MerwinBray

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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7537 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: Breech Seater - break open action, again Reply #2 - Sep 4^th, 2007 at 7:48am	Print Post
	Cat two things here. you need a bullet that fits properly. It is possable but not likely you can find a stock mold to fit that rifle. But best to go ahead and get one thats fitted to the chamber. On the mechanical seater itself. Plugged cases work fine with break actions, Just put a brass rod inside a fired case. File it down to seat the bullet were you want it. Boats


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Green_Frog Frequent Elocutionist Offline "It ain't easy being green" ASSRA Life #281 Posts: 4001 Location: Lynchburg, VA Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seater - break open action, again Reply #3 - Sep 4^th, 2007 at 8:29am	Print Post
	Cat, Did you get in on the "lesson" (discussion, really) at Brshy Mtn. on how to determine whether a bullet is seated and sealing properly? If yes, you can seat such a bullet, then mark a dowel or whatever to the proper length and make a simple "push seater" using a rod and knob or even an old screwdriver. I have been told repeatedly that you DON'T have to have the bullet crammed in tightly for a good seal...if it fits the throat properly it should almost drop into place. (and yet I insist on using a mechanical seater to force in an oversized bullet. ) Now for the details. First, what is the groove diameter of this barrel, and second what is the twist? Slugging and measuring twist are a couple of things I am sure you already know how to do, and those, along with a good chamber cast, will get you ready to run through the steps above easiy as soon as you have a properly fit bullet. Be sure and PM or e-mail if you need any further details. Froggie


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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3871 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seater - break open action, again Reply #4 - Sep 5^th, 2007 at 6:20am	Print Post
	I'm working on two angles now that may help. Groove/bore are .358/.350 give or take a whisker, well - 1/3 of a whisker. Bullet diameters I've tried are running .358 to .360 . Alloy is likely to be a bit hard being 50/50 lead/WW AC. Haven't measrued the twist yet, it is however much faster than the 1:16 in my .35 Whelen 700 Rem. The other issue is the length of the throat - 200 gr bullet will float free and clear between the end of the case and the point of engaging the rifling. (200 gr bullets being longer are working much better than anythign lighter.) I made a push seater from a 30-30 opened up to .375 Win and sized with a .357mag sizer then opened up with a .358-.360 mandrel. Even .200" longer than the .357 mag case it's almost long enough. Problem comes with the slight tapering of the chamber in not having much clearance to allow it to position the bullet forward enough to push it into the rifling. So I'm chasing a couple of alternatives - one is to make a mould that is 90% bore riding with one band so it will self-align in the rifling and then seal on the one and only base band. Another is to cast/swage a longer bullet that will still be a little in the case when it engages the rifling. A third alternative is to round up some .357 Max cases, but they're only 1/10" longer as I understand. Hmmm. The .458WM is calling me.

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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Green_Frog Frequent Elocutionist Offline "It ain't easy being green" ASSRA Life #281 Posts: 4001 Location: Lynchburg, VA Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seater - break open action, again Reply #5 - Sep 5^th, 2007 at 8:27am	Print Post
	I smell a MAJOR bench session coming up at Brushy Mtn! When will you get there this time? If you want to stay around for an evening after you shoot, we can do a bunch of head scratching and experimenting with a bunch of us to contribute to the confusion. bring along samples of whatever bullets you have cast and whatever seaters, etc. you have produced and we'll come up with SOMEthing, even if it's wrong! Froggie PS I'd be partial to a softer bullet...do you have any 30-1 made up or the metals to make some? If not, I might think about a 3-1 or even 4-1 mix with that WW so I could get the antimony %-age down. JMHO


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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seater - break open action, again Reply #6 - Sep 5^th, 2007 at 8:55am	Print Post
	Cat Try 222 Rimmed then you can trim them down to correct length. Blow them out with a light load and some corn meal and then retrim. 40 Rod


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MerwinBray Oldtimer Offline Aw Gees Posts: 936 Location: Kansas City, KS Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seater - break open action, again Reply #7 - Sep 5^th, 2007 at 5:57pm	Print Post
	Cat, Do you only need a couple of .357 max cases or 50 or so? I can send you a few if you are just looking for experimentation. Just let me know. They are from my .38 ballard xlong experiment and I have a few unfired. Merwin

	Great Plains Precision Rifle Club
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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3871 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seater - break open action, again Reply #8 - Sep 5^th, 2007 at 9:21pm	Print Post
	40_Rod wrote on Sep 5^th, 2007 at 8:55am: Cat Try 222 Rimmed then you can trim them down to correct length. Blow them out with a light load and some corn meal and then retrim. 40 Rod Without measuring, I would think that would give me the extra length and a little bit thinner wall thickness. Certainly an option.

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3871 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seater - break open action, again Reply #9 - Sep 5^th, 2007 at 9:31pm	Print Post
	MerwinBray wrote on Sep 5^th, 2007 at 5:57pm: Cat, Do you only need a couple of .357 max cases or 50 or so? I can send you a few if you are just looking for experimentation. Just let me know. They are from my .38 ballard xlong experiment and I have a few unfired. Merwin I need to determine IF it would work first. I think, though, that my next step is to make a breech seater that gives support as needed (which the case I'm using now doesn't and it's longer than a max case). THANKS though!

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3871 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seater - break open action, again Reply #10 - Sep 6^th, 2007 at 10:14pm	Print Post
	Here's the chamber cast: (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) About .600" between the mouth of the case and the start of the rifling. That IS a .357 case.

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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