I think some of your info is myth about oct barrels. I think the switch to round had more to do with economics than accuracy. Round barrels are easier to manufacture, less work and machining. I have had duds in both round and oct but as a rule the octs can be just as accurate as anything out there. Most octagons start as rounds anyway. Just my $02. Jerry

All of that makes complete sense and I had suspected as much.  Last rifle I had made up with an octagon barrel cost a couple of hundred bucks more just in the milling, filing and timing processes.  When I watched the smith doing that, I can understand why he charged more and it is easy to see how a manufacturer could offer a product at a lower price if he didn't put all that time and labor into making the barrel octagon.

I keep hearing various people say that a round barrel shoots better.  In my limited experience, I don't see that as being an accurate statement. But when guys have been shooting various barrel shapes a lot longer than me and have a lot more experience doing that sort of thing, I tend to listen in an effort to learn.  Until about seven years ago, all I had ever shot had been factory round barrels.  Though I'd been shooting various rifles for 50 years, I had no experience with octagon barrels which I like a lot simply because they are traditional.  

As I get older, I value traditional things a lot more.  

Thanks fellas for the information.  I've got more questions for you boys because much of this kind of shooting, especially with black powder is sorta new to me.

Well Martini, I'm gonna become an outlaw by exceeding the speed limit when I  turn over 65 day after tomorrow on Thursday, and I've noticed lately that a lot of things just don't "look" right to me.  Round barrels for instance on single shot rifles and the new cars and trucks for another.  Where are the good looking cars built by Ford and Chevrolet in 1955, 56, 57, 58, and 59?  All we have now are these little boxes that look alike.

When I see a high wall with a round barrel on it, it jiss doan look right no kinda whicha way, no it doan.  An anybody that would put a round barrel onna Sharps rifalgun oughta be took out and whupped gud.

Course, my wife says I have "tunnel vision", whatever that means.  I think she's just being a smart aleck.  She also says I'm becoming an old fart.  I reckon that's better than becoming an old fuddy duddy.  A fuddy duddy would put a round barrel on a Sharps and play golf.

Gert - that's not a round barrel. That's a RIGBY barrel. Big difference.

I'm two weeks from receiving a '77 (my first) so that picture just gets me all wound up!  Mine will be half octagon because.  Because there is probably no rifle barrel quite so difficult as a Rigby.  At least, so say the gunmakers who have made one.   

I have always thought that octagon barrels are a hold over from the days when barrels were hammered over mandrels and then filed smooth.  On can imagine that octagons might have been just as easy, if not easier, to hammer than round barrels would have been.

Brent

The ability to recognize a no win argument when you see one is needed here.

I get a kick out of these arguements and just love to watch, most everyone that gets into this one, all have the peices of the puzzle, but just won't put them together?

About 50 years ago when I was first hearing the old guys talk about gunsmithing, they said, IIRC, that old barrels (flintlock era) were made octagon because they could be made that way by hand by draw filing, while a smoothly turned round barrel would have required more machinining which was not economical if available at all.  The custom barrels of the Golden Age of Single Shots tended to be round, so I think the charm of old fashioned was trumped by practical performance.  JMHO, and you know how bad amphibian memories are! 

Froggie

Quote:


No Brent, your gear and everyone else's is to limited to make any type of effective test. There is just to much going against the type of gear we all love, in the single shot game, to prove one way or the other.

The actions are not made to be true in-line to the bore, scopes are mounted on the barrel. It's a long list of problems that on analyzes, would prevent objective reasoning followed with effective conclusions.

The next problem comes from the fact, that no matter how many barrels you or anyone else are willing to buy, it would never be enough
to satisfy the people with opposing views. 

Then there would be doubts about the bullets used, did they shoot in a tunnel, etc.

It is an endless argument, sort of," want to watch me chase my tail" ?  

Brent, 

    You seem to have somehow missed the point of my comment about custom rifles.  If the barrels of Pope, Schoyen, et al would have shot better with a barrel profile that was of ANY shape, that's likely what they would have used.  For instance, I've never heard of Pope making a 7 sided barrel although he was quite concerned about the INSIDE of the barrel.  He sometimes bought pre-drilled barrel stock from the big companies and worked from there...so we see, for instance, octagon Winchester marked barrels also marked "rifled by HM Pope."  BTW, one of Pope's own pet rifles had a barrel with an unfinished round contour IIRC, referred to as "dog fight."

    What I meant to imply, but maybe should have stated more succinctly, was that the octagon barrels we all seem to love (and yes, several of my favorite rifles wear them!) are really just a styling throwback and have little or no effect on the shootability of the rifle.  The additional machining, if done haphazardly, MAY even introduce additional stresses into the barrel's steel, but it PROBABLY has no effect on stiffening or cooling, or whatever...it is pretty much cosmetic nowadays, and if you want to make it look pretty (as I sometimes do) have at it; but don't expect improved performance out of this feature.

    On the other hand, if you want cooling with stiffness and other benefits from the exterior of the barrel, the current research suggests spiral or straight fluting, a larger knob left on the muzzle end, or even a reverse taper.  Those methods are outside the scope of this question and get their own thread (and hoots from the traditionalists!   )

Green Frog

To quote the gambler, "You paid to see the cards, lessons cost extra."  Before you keep tugging at this thread, please read and think about my WHOLE original answer and what it means, because I answered the question of why they started making octagon barrels in the old days...that was the way to make a finished surface while lacking sufficient machines to make a finely finished round barrel.  This information came to me from Robert Carr, an apprentice from the historic shop of Hacker Martin (flintlock builder of the early to mid-20th century.)

If you want an extended history of this topic, read and think about what each of the respondents has said and then read some of the commonly available resources.  When you can add to or refute what has been said, contribute it.  If you just want to stir the pudding, please go to a cooking forum.

Green Frog

"probably no rifle barrel quite so difficult as a Rigby"

Perhaps, but some cheat by milling a dovetailed pocket and driving in an insert. And then say that's how the originals were done

Note that, for the same amount of metal, and hence weight, the octagonal section is stiffer than the round.
Fred.

MartiniBelgian wrote on Aug 10^th, 2007 at 12:21pm:


I'm in total agreement with the above, I might add that a round tube resist deflection much better than any other shape.

In this world of shooting from a rifle barrel, when I have questions about what does it take to be the most capable for accuracy, I've always cheated and asked the best barrel makers of the day. I can't remember a single one since 1967 that has ever told me an octagonal.

I know that the people at the extreme end of peak accuracy, don't seem to be screwing octagonal barrels to their receivers. For what little that will mean to some here.

sometime I'll have to do a check but I'm willing to be that a lot of the top bench shooters at EG are using round short heavy barrels.    I think its been pretty well estabilished that as far as most modern propellents go shorter and stiffer is more productive than longer barrels.

however since we are into BOTH precision and tradition, we still see a lot of the octogonal barrels, particularly for the offhand and iron sighted guns where other factors probably out weigh the +/_ factors of round vrs octogon.

I believe you said "of equal weight".  The diameter of a round barrel that is equal in weight to an octagon barrel that is 1" across the flats will be greater than 1".   

Brent

Fred is absolutely correct, and I'll add that the orientation of an octagon makes no difference to it's bending stiffness. Same goes for fluted barrels as long as the flutes are evenly spaced.

I don't know what effect it has on torsional stiffness.