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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle project? (Read 9489 times)
Paul_F.
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"Order of Operations" on a custom rifle project?
Jul 23rd, 2007 at 10:29pm
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I've often daydreamed about having a really "custom" rifle of some kind or other...
More and more, I find myself thinking that it's not as far out of reach as it used to be.  I know more about doing some of the work myself.. I am more aware of some truely excellent wood and metal workers in the trade today than I ever have been before.. and I have a little more money to devote than in years past (or maybe I'm just more willing to make something like this a priority...)

I have a Winchester Low Wall, a Stevens 44, and have a couple other things I could use.. (also have my eye on a Stevens Favorite in "rebuild-able" shape.. maybe for my niece. ).

I'm trying to wrap my brain around the order of operations for a long-term custom rifle project.

See if I get this more or less right;'
1) Major mechanical and metal work... Rebarreling or relining, if necessary, rough polish to remove any pits, dings, etc. Make flat parts flat. Round parts Round. etc. make the innnards work flawlessly. Make any new screws, springs, pins, or whatever. 

2) Inlet and fit new wood, leaving  a tiny bit of extra wood above the metal for later. Put wood aside in safe ding-free place.

these next two steps I'm not sure which order they go in!

3) Send metal off for engraving.  Pace anxiously. Don't bother the nice engraver. Lie awake nights thinking about making "just one phone call".   Get metal back from engraver, wet self with joy.  (that last part is optional...).

4) Send metal for finishing. Color case the reciever, block, and lever... Carbona blue the trigger, hammer, nitre blue the screws.  Develop bleeding ulcer nervously waiting for the parts to come back.

5) Assemble, FINAL careful fitting of wood.  Finishing wood.

6)  First shots on paper... 2-3 years after starting.  Kill the first person that dings it!


So I'm wondering... 
Do I have this more or less right? Particularly steps 3 & 4?

Budget, of course, is also partly unknown to me at the moment... I've been estimating that each step (except the ones I can do myself... most of 1 and most of 5) would cost between $300-500... 
Naturally, this depends entirely on the level of work... 

Now I just have to work myself up to choosing a rifle, a design, a set of specs, and pouring dollars into it like tipping a generously endowed stripper with dimples "just so"... (can I use that metaphor on this forum?). 


Paul F.
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #1 - Jul 23rd, 2007 at 10:36pm
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Oh, nuts... 
I forgot one detail;

2.5 - Finish polish prior to sending to Engraver... or does the Engraver typically take care of this part as part of the job? (told you I have stuff to learn!).



Paul F.
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #2 - Jul 23rd, 2007 at 11:24pm
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Step 1 is to select wood  in advance and set aside to make sure it is completely air dry for five years prior to use.

Step 2 should be to select the bullet mold you intend to use since this is what determines the rifle twist the barrel should be cut to and the lead that needs to be cut in the throat ahead of the chamber. 

Step 3 is to select the sights for the type of shooting you intend to do since the reciever and barrel will need to be modified to accept them before the barrel is mounted or polished.

Step 4 is to obtain the proper extractor for the case you have selected to use. It is best to have this available before you attempt to cut the chamber.

Step 5 is to bush and convert the firing pin to a Neidner conversion if you intend to use smokeless.

Step 6 is to install close coupled or double or single set trigger(s).

Then you should be ready to have the barrel rifled, chambered, throated and head spaced after it has been profiled (shaped).

You may wish to fit the wood before you finish the metal work in case you scratch it in the process.

Then you should be ready for the final draw filing and polishing of the metal surfaces prior to bluing.

And of course the last thing to worry about is if there is enough money in place to proceed.



  
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Brent
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #3 - Jul 24th, 2007 at 7:52am
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Think of yourself as a general contractor and your rifle as a house you are building.  Some you will do yourself, some you will subcontract.  My Low wall had so many subcontractors I have to sit down and make a list to be able to count them all.  And a good bit of the work I did myself.   

Where to start and the order of events is always problematic.   Barrels take a long time to get made if you want the very very best.  So, consider starting there if you have an action to start with.  Otherwise, I would hunt for an action.  But seriously, many things can be done simultaneously.  And should be if you want to shoot it before you die of old age and anguish.   

Brent
  
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First_Shirt
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #4 - Jul 24th, 2007 at 8:30am
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Paul, I'd suggest only one change to your job schedule...fit AND finish the wood while the metalwork is in the white...that way there won't be any chance of rounding the corners of the inletting during the wood finishing process (or of scratching freshly finished metalwork).  Then, you can send the metal off to be engraved, and the wood off for checkering at the same time.

Greg

PS...if Ken does your engraving, the self-wetting won't be optional!  Wink
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #5 - Jul 24th, 2007 at 10:42am
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What Greg said.

Do all action work first, including a preliminary profiling and draw-filing of the surfaces. Set triggers are OK but their use will reduce the rifle's inherent accuracy, a good crisp single trigger pull is definitely more accurate from the bench. A Mann-Neidner conversion shouldn't be necessary but the firing pin nose should be small and be a snug fit in the breechblock face. Please see what P.O. Ackley said about most of the so-called Mann-Neidner conversions, he didn't like 'em at all, at all.

Fit the extractor after breeching but before chambering the barrel, to avoid scarring the newly-cut chamber walls. Witness marks for alignment are a real help and also an indication of your skill & professionalism.

Be sure to let the wood stabilize after preliminary profiling and rough-shaping. It sometimes happens that an internal stress in the blank is altered by wood removal, and will cause some slight warpage even though the blank is totally dry. I always try to wait at least 12 mos before doing the final inletting on an already-dried semi-inlet or rough-shaped blank, and am very careful not to dry the wood too much too fast.

Finish all stockwork including checkering before final-finishing the metalwork. Leave the filled-&-finished wood protruding slightly above the metal, what the stockmakers call slightly 'proud', for future refinishing and/or shrinkage. I built a dedicated stock cabinet so as to have a ding-free place to dry and store my finished stocks.

Do all metal polishing before engraving. Some engravers have their own preferences for metal finishers, but all polishing should be done before sending it first to the engraver and then to the metal finisher.

Some stockmakers checker before stock finishing and some do it after. I always do it after filling and finishing 'cause I think I have fewer problems that way.
JMO for a quick overview, good luck, Joe
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #6 - Jul 25th, 2007 at 11:50am
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Thanks for all the tips!

Think I have to set about selecting an action, and wrestling with details....
And collecting cash, of course!

Paul F.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #7 - Jul 25th, 2007 at 9:04pm
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I've always thought it was important to shoot the gun before any final finishing was done! Especially if this gun is to be shot a lot.
I generally clean up and rough polish all the parts once they have been fitted. Then I fit the wood to the metal and get it as smooth as possible. Once all that is done I head to the range for some testing and load work up.
If all shoots well, then I disassemble it and do the final polishing of metal, and send off whatever will be engraved or finished by others.
While these parts are out, I do whatever finishing needs to be done at home, plus put the finish on the wood and get it ready for the return of the parts.
When the parts return I have my end ready, so it's a simple matter to assemble it, and back to the range for lots of fun!
  
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KenK
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #8 - Jul 26th, 2007 at 7:38pm
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What about chambering and mould procurement?  Get the chamber cut to fit a mould or buy a mould to fit the chamber?
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #9 - Jul 26th, 2007 at 10:04pm
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Chamber to match the brass & bbl, mould to match the chamber & bbl.
Good luck, Joe
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #10 - Jul 26th, 2007 at 11:05pm
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I would kinda think that answer depended on what you already have...
If you already have a chamber design and reamer, then match the mold, brass and dies to that.

If you have a mold that makes bullets you want to shoot in your rifle, then have a chamber reamer made that fits that bullet.

If you have an off-the-shelf reamer, then you'll need a mold that makes a bullet to fit the chamber.

Just my half-educated opinion... (I've chambered barrels, and even made a couple reamers... but I'm kinda new to this whole makin' yer own bullets thing...  ).



Thanks for the other inputs!

I'm kinda thinking about starting with the Stevens 44, rebarreling or relining back to its present .22LR caliber.  So molds are not as important as chambering it properly for modern match ammo.

Paul F.
  
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ken_hurst
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #11 - Jul 28th, 2007 at 2:20pm
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PAUL ----   before polishing metal, send parts to "Classic Guns Inc." and ask John Gillette to anneal parts as he does for me.  When annealed parts arrive back into your hands, you'll find polishinh so much easier and faster.  Only polish with wet or dry paper and don't polish over 400 grit !  Send parts to engraver (gun scratcher) along with complete instructions. This should cover what you want done (in great detail) and type of finish desired.       Ken
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #12 - Jul 28th, 2007 at 6:28pm
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Ken;

Many thanks!
Exactly the sort of tip I need!
I'd already picked Classic Guns as my most likely place for color-caseing...  and you've just reinforced it.
I had not really considered having the receiver annealed prior to polishing, but it does make sense.

I'd never touch such a nice flat receiver side with anything BUT flat-block-backed wet-dry. 

I'll be making notes for quite a while about what I want in engraving... You'll probably get a call or email from me at some point with questions. By then I'm hoping the questions will at least be smart ones. Smiley

Paul F.
  
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Brent
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #13 - Jul 28th, 2007 at 8:00pm
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If you are cheap like me you can anneal it in a kitchen overn for an hour or three. Set it on "clean" cycle while buried in a pan of silica sand.  After a few hours turn off, and allow to cool slowly (overnight or so).  Ken's idea probably works better though.

Brent
  
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ken_hurst
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Re: "Order of Operations" on a custom rifle projec
Reply #14 - Jul 28th, 2007 at 9:38pm
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Where as I have used the old cleaning cycle in the past, I now only use Classic for their three day annealinh service -----  and it only cost $30.    The parts are placed in a cyl. and then charcoal is co,pacted around the parts. This is folloed by a 36 hour gradual increase in temp until 1425" is reached. Temp is held for approx. 8 hours and then slowly lowered for the remainder of the time so that the steel is dead soft .  You'll notice the difference in the ease of hand polishing AND, you will get a much better re-color case job.      Ken
  
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