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plumloco
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BORCHARDT SCHOYEN HELP?
Jul 12th, 2007 at 1:49pm
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Hello all,
    I am thinking of putting a Borchardt Schoyen together for Schuetzen.
(Say that three times fast!) Wanted to know what kind of Butt Plate to use? I want to shoot standing and Bench. I'm still toying with the lever?
The fancy one might not help with bench shooting. What do you think??
I will be a .32 something or other. My first venture in this style.  You guys haven't steered me wrong yet! Or at least. Not off the road!! Thanks Plumloco
  
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Brent
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Re: BORCHARDT SCHOYEN HELP?
Reply #1 - Jul 12th, 2007 at 2:00pm
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I do not know what the Schoyen stock looks like so I cannot comment too much but be prepared to wrestle with two things.

1.  Schuetzen stocks have enormous drop at the toe which gives fits when shooting off the bench.  A butt-sled is a useful idea and one that I'm pursuing now.   

2.  Think about your trigger.  Very carefully.   

I've made (making) a Zischang Borchardt and these issues are not trivial.  It can be done, but there are many easier ways to go.  I'm not there yet, but I'm getting closer. 

Brent
  
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plumloco
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Re: BORCHARDT SCHOYEN HELP?
Reply #2 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 10:57am
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Hi Brent,
    Thanks for the info.   I have heard about the triggers! Trying to work that out. What is a butt sled? Anybody have pics?  This will be a new hobby!  So I have a lot of new things to save for! Plumloco
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: BORCHARDT SCHOYEN HELP?
Reply #3 - Jul 13th, 2007 at 7:50pm
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A butt sled is simply a flat-bottomed wedge that is grooved on is upper angle to fit the stock and give it a wider flatter base to rest on when shooting off a bench rest.
The groove in the wedge is fitted to the contour of the bottom of the stock.  Typically they are pretty well hogged out with a router or mill of some sort and then the stock is waxed and wrapped in a layer or two of saran wrap and then the groove is coated liberally with acra-gel, the rifle butt clamped tightly into the gel-filled groove and allowed to set up.  When cured and removed it should be a good tight fit to the stock.  The flat bottom of the wedge is is laid out so that when the rifle is in the wedge groove, the bore line will be parallel to the bottom.  Or, when the gun is in a rest and in the wedge, with the bottom of the wedge on the shooting bench, the bore will be level. 
  The width of the bottom or foot of the wedge has to meet whaterver your rules permit for benchrest stocks.  Length may also be goverened.  The whole affair should be tall enough to let you work the action and have the bore level without being too tall and tippy.  S
ome folks attach the wedge (or butt sled) with a screw or bolt others use double stick tape.  I imagine, rules permitting the butt sled could also be weighted
  

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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Re: BORCHARDT SCHOYEN HELP?
Reply #4 - Jul 14th, 2007 at 5:40pm
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Regardless of what type of buttplate you use, a Schoyen style stock will not work well for both offhand and benchrest. They are way to specific to offhand work to put any benchrest buttplate on and shoot well with.
Best to have two separate stocks and buttplates built for your gun and change it as an assembly for each type of match.-Vall
  
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Brent
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Re: BORCHARDT SCHOYEN HELP?
Reply #5 - Jul 14th, 2007 at 5:50pm
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I gotta disagree with that mg.  What does "shoot well" mean.  I'll put my offhand optimized .22 up against any bench rifle.  It consistently shoots in the 240s at 200 yds off the bench, and yet it is built specifically for offhand with a hooked plate, an inch of cast off and a back bored tube.  I don't think that winning rifles have to exclusive to just offhand or just bench. In fact, I've been beaten too many times and I have won too many times by "all round" rifles to believe that.  

I just built a butt sled for my Zischang Borchardt.38  today.  If it works as well as I hope I fully believe I will clean house with the rifle off the bench or offhand.  

I would argue that switching out stocks just gives you loose wood/metal fit and eventually poorer scores for your trouble.  I would not argue that really hard, but I'm not afraid of a bench rest specialist rifle.  

Brent

  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: BORCHARDT SCHOYEN HELP?
Reply #6 - Jul 15th, 2007 at 11:23am
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Brent, I tend to agree about the wear and tear on stock fit if you do a lot of switching.
However I have seen a possible solution.  I have see a few stocks that were well fitted and lightly glassed in the contact areas to protect the wood.  Then carefully aligned and fitted threaded metal inserts are glassed into the normal wood screw attachment holes.  The butt is then attached with modified machine screws; their heads modified to look like the standard wood screws normally used.  this give a proper look and it still allows for multiple replacements without winding up with a sloppy wood/metal fit.
  

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J.D.Steele
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Re: BORCHARDT SCHOYEN HELP?
Reply #7 - Jul 15th, 2007 at 3:27pm
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My humble opinion is that if your rifle relies upon wood screws for its buttstock attachment, then you have my deepest sympathy (& pity).
Sorry, JMO, gooc luck, Joe
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Re: BORCHARDT SCHOYEN HELP?
Reply #8 - Jul 15th, 2007 at 8:40pm
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I guess I'm spoiled with Ballards that have no tangs and use throughbolts. -Vall
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: BORCHARDT SCHOYEN HELP?
Reply #9 - Jul 15th, 2007 at 9:47pm
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Adding a drawbolt is relatively easy, so I really don't quite understand the craftsmen who're still using wood screws. On Stevens and rollers, to name two.

Except that it's quick and cheap, for those who value that sort of thing.
Good luck, Joe
  
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Brent
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Re: BORCHARDT SCHOYEN HELP?
Reply #10 - Jul 15th, 2007 at 9:53pm
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Joe, does this mean that you put drawbolts on your walls?  Say it isn't so!

I have a friend that has drawbolts on his Stevens, and he swaps stocks all the time.  He has a large hole drilled in each buttplate and removes the stocks with a long t-handle allen wrench.  It works.   

But I have a butt sled currently being bedded to my Zischang, and I suspect it will be just the ticket to perfect accuracy.  I think it is MUCH easier to do that than fit another stock, even if it can be done in a way to facilitate countless numbers of change outs.   

Brent
  
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Brent
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Re: BORCHARDT SCHOYEN HELP?
Reply #11 - Jul 16th, 2007 at 10:27am
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Plum,
another thing you have to consider for shooting a gun like that off the bench is that you will need a much elevated front rest.  The drop of the stock makes it darn hard to get the barrerl th point high enough for 200 yds, unless your range is shooting down a steep hill.   

I just built an elevator block for my front rest and the varnish is drying on the butt sled.  I hope to shoot it this weekend, but it will take a bit of luck to make that happen.

Brent
  
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plumloco
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Re: BORCHARDT SCHOYEN HELP?
Reply #12 - Jul 16th, 2007 at 4:54pm
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Brent,
   When you get things up and running? Can you send a picture of the setup?  Also I beleive I have found double set triggers for the Borchardt.
Frontier list two kinds. A.O and fred Zink. Have to find out if they are available? Thanks Plumloco
  
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