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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI (Read 10888 times)
QuestionableMaynard8130
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22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
May 6th, 2007 at 11:28am
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I recently found out that our local CC club which I joined several years ago to use its archery ranges has add a small bore silhouette match.  It turned out that one was this weekend at a time which did not conflict with my normal schedule; so I thought I'd take one of my 22 single shots and give it a whirl and also try to drum up some local interest in Single shots.
Just for your amusement I thought I'd share the experience

Well I went to it, and I shot in it,  but . . . . .I'se gots a lot t'learn. 

I mounted my 20x Redfield on the Swiss Federal offhand rifle, since its all done offhand.   I'd made a prong butplate for the Ruger#1 and added a palmrest  but they are not allowed and while I had Keiths figures for the Mitchell scope  and Dale McGee sent me some figures that he has used for shooting them at his local club I thought waving that 40x around might make me motion sick.
   Dale, I used your figures and clicked down from my assumed 100 yd zero for the chickens.  We only had a short time to shoot to warm up the guns and check out zeros.  ( the benches are bad at the club--really bad. Imagine shooting benches made of 1/2 plywood jello and you won't be far off. I'm going to have to build a few and donate them, or build my own heavy duty folding one to haul back and forth)   I had a difficult time getting the paralax adjusted on the redfield to give me a clear picture at 25 yds---more on scopes later.  Eventually I got a sorta fuzzy picture and decided to test fire, shooting off my elbows on a wobbley bench since practice time was fast running out.  Managed to put three shots in a paper chickens head@25 so I figured that was as good as I was gonna to get with out a whole lot more testing and setup time.  (it was about as good as the whole experience got too!!!

Naturally since I was one of the early ones there they put me #2 in the 1st relay.    Other than a bit of screwing around on the 50 yd targets at EG I've never done any offhand work. 
  (See I've got LOTS of excuses.)  
Anyway I managed to get 2 of the 10 chickens.  It amazed me since it seemed like I was waving that gun around like I was conducting an orchestra with it. Chickens 8--Wayne 2
 On to the Peeegs----Had to adjust the scope.  I later learned that other guys just use hold over and under based on the turkys---but they also use higher speed ammo.   Also had to mess with the paralax again.  Fortunately they were pretty elastic on the time limits.  I nailed the 1st two pigs.   then realized that I was shooting on the wrong bank of them.  They have two racks of five that have to be shot in order and I'd been shooting on the second one first.  So I called the range master over and he agreed to let me finish shooting that bank first, but I'd not be able to count those first two.   Totally spooked and under time pressure I missed everything on that bank, and went back to the first bank.  only got one of them.  Peeegs 9 Wayne 1.   only good pigs are smoked ham and bacon anyway.
Turkys ----eeech!  Had to do the paralax readjust and scope adjust again.  actually manged to shoot in the right sequence and even got one of the.   I hate the turkys anyway.  In my IMHSSA shooting days more than once I cleaned the rams and most of the pigs and missed everyone of the damn turkys---for a few years there I couldn't stand Thanksgiving.  Turkys 9--Wayne 1.
Rams.  now I always liked the Rams--prior to this.   Had to do the scope adjust and paralax change again. finally got a nice crisp picture but I must have miscounted on the clicks----missed everyone of the buggers.   Of course the berm is nicely sodded and green so I had no way to tell where they were going to compensate.  But then after 30 odd rounds plus a few "sighters" I was probably weaving around like a weed in a windstorm anyway.

anyway I finished up 4/40 but I had a BALL anyway.  using the single shots got a lot of attention.  Had a few guys come up and ask questions.  had some other SS stuff in the back of the van including the Ruger---it got a lot of attention and I passed out a few back issues of the J. Most of the serious guys were using CZ's a few anschutz, a couple old classic win and rem smallbore competition rifles etc and shooting in the mid to high 20s.  I think the club record is 31.  Using a single shot felt a bit like taking a knife to a gunfight, but since they are a bit more flexxible on time here locally its doable and I'll do it again for sure.   Any excuse to shoot a single shot etc etc. found out that we have another local club that shoots the 22 silhouettes every other thursday evening.  I can do that too if I'm home.

I clearly need to use a different scope with more field of view as a dedicated scope set up just for the silhouettes, all sighted in and marked with settings.  then its just a matter of practicing.   I enjoyed it a lot and it gave me something other than just archery to do at the local club anyway.

IF you do any 22rf single shot shooting, and IF you have a local club that offers the 22rf silhouettes and IF you've never tried it give it a whirl. Any of you that have experience at this who want to give advice or comments,it'd be appreciated. Even though I did poorly this first time I had a ball and it leaves lots of room to improve and it gives another excuse to play with my rifles.

DWStiles
.

« Last Edit: May 6th, 2007 at 11:33am by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  

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J.D.Steele
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #1 - May 6th, 2007 at 5:00pm
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Thanks, Wayne, very interesting!

For several years I've been custodian of most of a set of steel RF Silhouettes of both sizes from a defunct gun club, and have had a ball with them at ranges out to 200 meters. Now, this week, I just discovered that my local club is now having RF Rifle Silhouette shooting. I'll be there next time!

For changing the parallax on an old-style target scope, I've discovered that some of the Litschert scopes have the fastest (& thus most useful) adjustment system. It's clearly a full order of magnitude faster than the more common Unertl or Lyman style, and appears to be fully as accurate as well.

Some but not nearly all Litschert Spot Shot scopes have a non-threaded sliding objective lens housing, with its parallax adjustment locked by a large-headed thumb screw. This is the fastest style; other Litschert Spot Shot scopes have several other objective lens parallax adjustment systems but most are not any faster than the Unertl or Lyman style.

For the more usual short-range silhouette shooting, 25 to 100 yds, I've found that the holdover/under method is the best for me. But for the new single shot 'buffalo' RF Silhouette shooting out to 200, I personally will definitely use my elevation adjustment.

When using the holdover method I find it useful to have, as reference, a copy of an already-fired multi-bull target into which I've fired shots using a center hold at each of the various ranges. I've tried this with both round bulls and full-size animal figures and can see advantages to both. Keeping a copy of the fired target handy when 'holding over' is good memory insurance, especially in recent years.......
Good luck, Joe
  
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Phoenix
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #2 - May 6th, 2007 at 6:37pm
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ONE OF THE MOST FUN SHOOTIN IS 22 SILLEYWET. the folks were more at ease and everybody got a can of beans or a pin. i have some targets here that we shoot for fun but  i have to be watched,cause i will twist some windage in a scope for you. lots of fun. regards,ben.
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #3 - May 6th, 2007 at 6:42pm
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just messing about in my backyard with my BSA 15 and some of the Aguila Colabri "sans Poudre".   got a little swinger backed by an old shot up foam archery target.   this could get to be real addicting. I can open the back door and actually be shooting inside.  wasn;t even spooking the birds on the feeder about 20 feet form the door.

  Also, While hunting through some stuff I found a scope I bought last year at the  ASSRA Spring meeting auction.   I forgotten all about it.  is is a simmons fixed power with a little ram silhouette and the 24x inside it really fine duplex crosshairs and a quickly moving paralax adjustment.  like one rotation from one extreme to the other and its calibrated from 40m to 500 and infinity, target knobs and what looks like a 40mm or so objective, almost but not quite as big as those Simmons 44' that Dale53 rates so highly.  Don;t know if it is really a good scope on not until I get a chance to test it but I suspect its might be.
  Wow guys---is this a SIGN or what?????
  

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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #4 - May 6th, 2007 at 8:17pm
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DWS,

I enjoy RF silhouette shooting a lot and my rifle of choice is a cobbled-together Stevens 414 with a shortened barrel and a 3/4" Weaver scope, which I set to hit dead on on the Pigs.  Then I can shoot at the feet of the Chickens, just over the shoulders of the Turkeys and about a Ram high.  The rifle likes Winchester Wildcat Dynapoints at ~$10.00 per carton (last I bought them.)

To me it's more like plinking or hunting than "real" target shooting so I concentrate on good holds and trigger control and ignore equipment issues.  The guys I shoot with have Anschutz offhand rifles and exotic scope sights which they constantly fiddle with and gripe about.  They shoot Eley Tenex or Lapua or Federal Match at about the cost per 50 as I pay for a carton, and they keep going on about light changes, having the wrong zero, barrel never settling down, etc.  For all this activity, they don't seem to do all that much better than me, if as well; scores of 21-24 frequently win, and when the wind is up, scores of 16 sometimes do it.

For the life of me, I can't see a light change or a click in windage or elevation doing that much on a silhouette target, if you're already well into the center of mass.  Obviously, it could change a ring or two on a standard paper target, but these metal animals aren't standard targets.  The equipment guys often seem to wind up the day exasperated with their equipment, threatening to sell it or chuck it into a Bessemer converter.  If I'm exasperated, it's for my failure to practice offhand as often as I should be doing; otherwise, it's been a fun and relaxing session and another chance to shoot Old Cattywompus again.
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #5 - May 6th, 2007 at 8:27pm
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Bent Ramrod, 
It works like this see,  if you have lots of fancy equipment you have better and more creative excuses.  If you don't win you still get some sort of karma points for having the most artistic excuses don't you? Wink    If I could not win with the really really nice full house original H Pope Glallery rifle I saw this weekend at EG Id be doing much better than with my little BSA #15 I'm sure
  

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rimfire
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #6 - May 6th, 2007 at 8:56pm
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Phoenix - welcome home - I didn't think that you would be able to stay away for long - you are kinda like a prodical son to us here at the forum - here for awhile - gone for awhile. - u have a good day now -   the rimfire - cdpersons
« Last Edit: May 7th, 2007 at 7:02pm by »  
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Phoenix
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #7 - May 6th, 2007 at 9:07pm
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thak you very much----i enjoy this bunch, regards,ben.
  
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Brent
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #8 - May 6th, 2007 at 9:30pm
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.22 silhouette is way more fun than almost any match.  We have only one here per year.  It is a shame.  It would be a great way to recruit new shooters.   

Phoenix, if I catch you twisting my scope knobs I'll be eating one tough old refried bird for dinner that's for sure....  Wink Wink  Grin Grin


Brent\
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #9 - May 6th, 2007 at 10:52pm
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I'm sure that most of the ASSRA offhand 22rf shooter's'd enjoy it.  However it'll never happen at EG for the simple reason that the original deed whereby the club acquired the property contains a restrictive covenant which very specifically prohibits metallic targets. 
In a way though it is kind of good since it forces those of us who'd like to give it a try to seek out and participate in other club's events.  Just think of it as single shot missionary work that is also fun. I know a couple of guys at the single event I attended so far were interested in our activities and one local that I know of so far has sent in a membership app.
  

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Brent
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #10 - May 6th, 2007 at 10:58pm
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QuestionableMaynard8130 wrote on May 6th, 2007 at 10:52pm:
I'm sure that most of the ASSRA offhand 22rf shooter's'd enjoy it.  However it'll never happen at EG for the simple reason that the original deed whereby the club acquired the property contains a restrictive covenant which very specifically prohibits metallic targets.


And what the heck is that prohibition all about anyway?  Some STRANGE ideas there.  People for the Ethical Treatment of Iron (PETI) seems to have made some inroads in the shooting worls  Roll Eyes

Brent

  
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rimfire
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #11 - May 7th, 2007 at 6:42am
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Brent - the man who sold us the property was a noted high power benchrest shooter/gunsmith an he was very safety concious - see there are lots of rules that we are governed by that the average member knows nothing about - the list goes on. - u all have a good day now - the rimfire - cdpersons
  
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Brent
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #12 - May 7th, 2007 at 7:55am
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rimfire, 
I didn't realize I was being so dangerous by shooting steel silhouette.   

You be careful now.

Brent
  
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #13 - May 7th, 2007 at 8:10am
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Brent,

     To add to what rimfire said, the E-G range was set up to be safe specifically with the use of the berm.  While there is a reasonable "free fire zone" behind the berm, the general design is not such that ALL forms of shooting are safe there.  The area around the range could be described as a sort of "rural-residential."   Roll Eyes

     By their nature, silhouettes (even for .22) bring about some non-standard deflections in the after-target trajectories of the bullets.  While the prohibitions of steel targets seem strange to some folks who have ranges whose configurations make this insignificant, they make a great deal of sense to this particular range design.   Smiley

     As was previously stated, this all gives us an excuse to go to a variety of ranges, and the opportunity to "spread the word" to other shooters as well.  This is a good thing!  Wink

Regards,
Froggie
  
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Brent
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #14 - May 7th, 2007 at 8:16am
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Well, Frog, we are looking for you here
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

And there won't even be any need to shoot steel.
Brent
  
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boats
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #15 - May 7th, 2007 at 9:10am
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I have shot a whole lot more Silouette than Schuetzen. Simply because there is match each weekend within driving distance. With Hunter and Sillouette rifle class you can get at least 2 matches in a session and some clubs run double so it's possable to shoot 4 in a day. Get a copy of NRA's Shooting Sports USA for locations and dates.

Couple of things 

Most match directors will let you shoot your Schuetzen even if it does not qualify as long as it's not for match placing or prizes. I shoot mine exactly as set up for Schuetzen matches.   Best Strategy is to have a hunter class rimfire bolt action for one match and shoot the Schuetzen in the Silouette class.  You can get a good enought hunter class rifle fairly cheap.

Shoot your Schuetzen exactly like the rest of the competitors do. That is use Match ammo, change your sight /parallax settings and keep to the time limit.  You can do it as easy as with a bolt action. I put a small sand bag on the shooting bench to rest my muzzle when reloading which speeds things up.  Shooting 5 shots in 2 1/2 minutes is good pratice, will teach you not to hang too long before breaking the shot.  

Change your scope settings.  No one has ever done well with hold overs.  Our Club also runs Lever action iron sight matches on pistol targets, We still change sight settings when changing Critters.

Sighting in. Best to get your elevations before match day.  It takes too long to completly sight in with the time constrants.  Get some cardboard boxes staple your sigher targets and set them out at match distance.  Do it offhand, the match targets are so small sighting errors from bench zeros will put you out of the game right away.  On match day the sighting period only confirms your windage zero. Trust your pre set elevations and use most of the sighter period to get warmed up.

The signifigant difference is with Schuetzen every shot counts and misses drop scores signifigantly. You see whats happining by soptting your target and get instant feedback from your shots. It teaches precision.  With Silouette a miss is as good as a mile and most people will miss a lot of targets. It teaches you to make quick decesions but it can encourge dumping shots too easily.  Without a real good spotter you never are sure what happened to a miss.  Thewmatches complement each other and are great cross training.

I find there is little differece in scores between my 7 1/2 lb hunter rifle and 14 # Schuetzen.   The Schuetzen may have a Ram advantage as it's slightly more accurate at 100 meters. Scope powers are the same The Hunter class rifle has a 3# trigger while the Schuetzen is a Set.  It would seem that would be important but it makes little difference

If you can shoot a Hudson match over 2000 you ought to be able to shoot a Silouette match with 2/3 of the animals knocked down. And the reverse is true too. Any AA class Silouetter shooter once familar with the match ought to be able to shoot a Hudson match at 2000-2100 fairly easily.

I may get some argument about this but if AAA or Master Class Silouette shooters competed in offhand Schuetzen they would win or place high most matches.  It's highly competive and competiton breeds good shooters. 

Boats

  
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Re: 22 rimfire silhouette--single shot style--JFYI
Reply #16 - May 7th, 2007 at 10:45am
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DWS;
You are onto a GOOD thing. I, and a couple of friends, started a .22 silhouette match at our local club several years ago. We were all BPCR shooters and really wanted to shoot a minature version of that using .22 single shots and using the same course of fire as the BPCR's. However, we realized that if we restricted the shooters to single shots the only guys shooting would be us. That was not our desire. 

The rules have evolved and now "any safe .22" can be used. We have autos, match rifles, and several single shots on the line. We now have about 25-30 active shooters (we shoot indoors on paper in the winter). We shoot at 25,50,75, and 100 yards. We started off just shooting the chickens offhand and the rest off sticks. However, perfect scores got too numerous so we now shoot chickens and pigs offhand and the rest off sticks. A recent rule change (rules are reviewed every October - no rule changes at any other time) has the top shooters shooting everything offhand with a two target bonus. Scopes are now allowed and most use them. Iron sight users get a two target bonus.

Outdoors, perfect scores happen from time to time. Glenn Fewless was the first to shoot a perfect score with iron sights (no bonus necessary). He kind of showed us the way. I have shot several perfect scores but with a scope (my vision now makes iron sight use a memory on iron).

Most of us use the Simmons 44 mag scopes with target knobs - 1/8" clicks and an adjustable objective. We change the zero every bank AND the objective. It is really nice to have a properly focused scope on every target. Those scopes are really $300.00 scopes that could be had for $100 for several years. They are no longer offered. I don't know what Simmons has replaced them with. They have a wide adjustment range and are more repeatable than my Leupolds (hard to believe but a fact). We have a bunch of them in use and NO ONE is unhappy with them.

A single shot is absolutely no handicap for silhoutte. I can recommend the "modified" course that we use as the newbies get to shoot decent numbers (score) when they start and they are not intimidated by low scores. We have a VERY high return rate. Then adjust the course of fire (once a year) as it seems pertinent.

We charge a nominal fee to shoot (a dollar or so) and 80% of the money is returned to the shooter. One thing we learned from our muzzle loader friends is to spread the money out to many places. I worked out a spread sheet that pays so many places back depending on the turn out that particular night. Depending on number of shooters, a ninth place guy might get $.30 (that's thirty cents). You would be surprised how that keeps the guys coming back. You don't hear any body complaining because the top three guys keep winning all of the money. That sort of thing never bothered me (when I started out I just figured that I had to pay dues before I got to the winner's circle). Today, you have to "massage" new shooters so that they will come back. No use bitchting about it, it is fact, so we live with it and build our attendance.(:>)). We have two guys in wheelchairs that are competing and they are always "in the hunt". Good shots, both. I don't think either of them shot any competition in their life before they discovered us.

Our best shot just received a rebuilt Stevens 44 and will be shooting it in the future matches. See, it really does work. We have guys shooting single shots who are really not single shot guys. They just think that they are neat (they're right(:>)) and want to use them because of that. That is GOOD!

Just some thoughts on "spreading the word"...

Dale53
  
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