jfeldman wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2007 at 12:22am:


Ned Roberts, in his book The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle, quotes his shooting uncle Alvaro as saying that a good rifleman should be able to keep all his shots inside an 8-inch circle at 40 rods (220 yards), offhand, with peep rear and pinhead front iron sights, if his rifle was accurate. I gather from the tone of the narrative that this level of performance was enough to make a respectable showing but not necessarily enough to win every time.

I can only dream..............
Regards, Joe

On offhand pratice

I agree 100% that pratice should be focused and re-enforce good habits not bad ones. It's probably best to end a session thats not going well. If you do however find out why the session was going wrong and try to fix it.

As far as match vs pratice.  It depends.

When I shot a lot of Smallbore Silouette 4 matches each month were avalable and each match ran two types of rifles two matches of each. I was able to shoot over a hundred matches per year. Same with Smallbore prone when I had 250 schudled matches per year in a club 2 miles from my house. No problem to shoot a Hundred of them,  Both I only shot outside of formal matches to fix something on the rifle or solve some positon problem.

Schuetzen is another story.  I only shoot  4 matches per year, 3 Outdoor Hudson matches and one indoor gallery match.  It's due to the distance and with outdoor Schuetzen 3 day format.  I have to pratice, othewise performance will be not up to my expectations. 

If you are located near an active club with a full slate of competition avalable you will be a much better shooter than working isolated. I read often about the Wyoming shooters and amount of competition they have, with very good shooters too.  It's going to be hard to beat that kind of match experence.

I should not paraphrase Tubb, again it's best to read his book, He has shot a lot of diffrent disiplines and refers often to pratice and methods.  No doubt when he was winning all the Sillouette matches match shooting was all he did. When on a college team pratice was his primary shooting.

Boats

AFAIK, in ASSRA competition, 
a) No
b) No

You are correct that palm rests are allowed and may be of virtually any conventional configuration, and both adjustable and fixed designs are allowed.

At E-G and some other venues, there are special matches, usually for the over-40 cal. crowd, where cross sticks are used.  I am not aware of ANY use of slings in any ASSRA sanctioned matches, but I don't have my rule book handy.

On a related but slightly different note, it is not uncommon for OH shooters to utilize a rifle rest, as seen in other disciplines, to rest the rifle WHILE the shooter is standing and preparing for a shot.  The rifle is then lifted off the rest only at the last moment as the shooter assumes his actual firing position.  This lift may be quite minimal, but the rifle and the shooter's hand (an all other parts) must be clear of the support.  I have made a pipe-clamp device that holds my spotting scope, this rest and even a bar for my powder measure so that I can clamp one thing to the bench top and get all of those jobs accomplished at once.

HTH, Froggie

I'll work on it, Flatlander.  Only problem, it's cold in the foothills of VA as well! 

The general idea, which is used by MANY shooters and has been for a long time, is to buy one of those clamp sets that uses a piece of black iron pipe.  One part threads onto the end of the pipe, the other can be slid up and down to approximate position, then there is a crank to do your final tightening...every tool seller from "Horrible Freight" to "Rears and Sawbuck" has about the same unit.   

The pipe is clamped to the table with about 3 or more feet sticking up above the table, then whatever you need to support is attached to this upright pipe.  I took a T-fitting and reamed out the threads so it would slide on the pipe, then cut extra long threads on a short section to screw into the short leg of the T and tighten against the upright.  Singleshot turned me on to the idea of using some insulating foam around the pipe to protect the rifle finish.  My scope mount is a flat bar of aluminum about 4" long with a hole to slide on the pipe (secured in place with a set screw) and another hole for an old Freeland's scope stand mounting piece. The powder measure clamps to or goes through a similar plate located down close to the surface of the table where it's convenient.  All of this is instantly adjustable for different benches at different ranges.  Lots of folks use wood instead of aluminum or other variations on the theme...it comes down to whatever you have available that will work for you!   

I'll try to get some pix and post them when Global Warming reaches Central VA!  Our weatherman doesn't know about it yet!! 

Froggie

Jim, the box mine came in says "pipe clamp," and I've always considered the term "bar clamp" limited to those flat bar things that do the same thing using the bar that comes with the clamping mechanism rather than fitting on a piece of black iron pipe that the customer supplies.  As you know however, I'm a Biologist by trade, so if my technical terminology is confused, just blame it on my raisin'! 

BTW, for those with deeper pockets than a retired Biology teacher, Sinclair makes a Jim Dandy unit with solid steel rods, some sort of synthetic clamp plates, etc, etc.  I saw one being used by (I believe) el Presidente for the last season or two and it looks mighty spiffy.  Now where did I put that hammer and my piggy bank...   

Froggie

PS  I'm gathering up the parts of my XXXX clamp unit and will try to get pix posted by Mon or Tues.  GF

Quote:


Sir, my copy of Robert's The Breech-Loading Single Shot Rifle contains no such statement on page 44, the contents of which deal with the Maynard rifle and have some small reference to the groups obtained by particular shooters at a mere 200 yards. I refer you to the source I cited earlier, Roberts' The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle, the Stackpole NRA edition, page 121. He states an 8" circle with iron sights offhand, 4" with iron sights and a rest, and 2 1/2" with a scope and a rest, all at 40 rods which is a full 220 yards.

Like the man said earlier in another thread, don't make me tell you again. Your intentions were undoubtedly good but your facts were a little weak sorry.
Good luck, Joe

I don't know about the draw-tube scope, but the group sizes quoted in Roberts' book seem eminently doable to me. I personally have never been even an adequate offhand shooter but can usually match or beat the 'with rest' group sizes he mentioned. I would expect that's true of most of us on this board.

JoeB, you gotta remember that most folks can't shoot nearly as well in a shoulder-to-shoulder match as they can in practice, so the match group sizes are almost always larger. Also, the precise definition and abilities of "real" vs "rare" riflemen may have undergone some changes over the years (VBG).
Cheers, Joe