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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Muzzle sleds (Read 5752 times)
Brent
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Muzzle sleds
Feb 19th, 2007 at 5:50pm
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I am looking for a muzzle rest - I call it a sled - for a schuezten rifle.  I have used the "pope" sled that Buffalo Arms sells and it's okay.  But I would be interested in other options - potentially a bit larger and heavier perhaps.   
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Does anyone make such a beast - for putting on a round barrel of about 1.0625" or so...

Brent
  
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harry_eales
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Re: Muzzle sleds
Reply #1 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 5:29am
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Hello Brent,
I must admit I haven't seen these advertised elsewhere other than by the supplier you mentioned.

However, any competant machinist should be able to make you something similar and larger, out of solid steel with split brass or bronze bushes inserts to clamp around the barrel.

Alternatively you could make up a full size wooden pattern and have the parts cast by a foundry and then 'cleaned up' in critical areas by a machinist.

Any good book on 'Foundry Work' will include a chapter on pattern making and the woods to use. A web search may also help you get information on mould making.

Either way you go, it will probably work out quite a bit more expensive than the $60.00 Buffalo Arms charge for their current model.

Harry
  
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joeb33050
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Re: Muzzle sleds
Reply #2 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 5:53am
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Welllllllll
  
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Brent
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Re: Muzzle sleds
Reply #3 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 8:53am
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Harry,
Thanks for the suggestions.  I think I like your idea of making one with the split brass bushings etc.  I don't think I would bother with a mold for a one-off though.

BTW, the Borchardt is coming along but let me tell you.  I do not have kind words for Mr. Hugo and his planned through bolt path.  No, I have not gone through from the outside but it's close and the damn hole just not right.  I'm a half step away from epoxying a plug in the back of the receiver, filling up the current stock hole with more epoxy, and redrilling the whole shebang.   

Brent
  
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harry_eales
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Re: Muzzle sleds
Reply #4 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 10:08am
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Hello Brent,
Mr Borchardts design does have a few problems. Remember the stock bolt doesn't come out of the action parallel to the tangs but cocked slightly upwards at an angle of 84.93 degrees to the buttress between the tangs. Make the drilling angle 85 degrees and you won't be far out. Just be very carefull of where the hole is in relation to the upper side of the pistol grip, the wood gets very, very, thin there.

Try laying the stock on the floor first, place the receiver with the stockbolt in place on the side of the stock and eyeball just how close the stockbolt gets to the upperside of the pistol grip. Then go and pour yourself a stiff one, you may need it.

The stockbolt angle is fine for the military stock which is straight, but bloody awkward when a civilian pistol grip stock is to be fitted.

Harry
  
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Brent
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Re: Muzzle sleds
Reply #5 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 10:14am
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Harry, here is a simpler solution that you can try on your's when you reach that point - Drill the damn hole parallel with the tangs to start with.  In the receiver as well as the stock.  I'm about half way there to doing to mine, never mind Hugo's angles.  Just had to rant about this - it's irritating the hell out of me.

Brent
  
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harry_eales
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Re: Muzzle sleds
Reply #6 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 10:38am
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Hello Brent,
I had thought of making the stockbolt angle as you suggested, but it would have meant that with the stock design I plan to use,  that the stockbolt hole would terminate just where the lower buttplate screw should be.

Blowing off steam somtimes helps when you have something that's not going quite right. Walk away from it for a day until all the steam has gone. Then come back to it. That's what I do.

Harry


  
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MP
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Re: Muzzle sleds
Reply #7 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 2:46pm
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If you have lots of time you could always make a “Niedner” sled.

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Brent
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Re: Muzzle sleds
Reply #8 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 2:50pm
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Wouldn't that look tacky on a Zischang style rifle?   Smiley

Seriously, thanks!  That might be the ticket, but I have a few places to check yet.

Brent
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: Muzzle sleds
Reply #9 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 6:58pm
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Quote:
Hello Brent,
Just be very carefull of where the hole is in relation to the upper side of the pistol grip, the wood gets very, very, thin there.

Try laying the stock on the floor first, place the receiver with the stockbolt in place on the side of the stock and eyeball just how close the stockbolt gets to the upperside of the pistol grip. Then go and pour yourself a stiff one, you may need it.

The stockbolt angle is fine for the military stock which is straight, but bloody awkward when a civilian pistol grip stock is to be fitted.

Harry


Harry, it all depends upon your stock design. My own PG Borchardt has a 3/8" throughbolt hole and another 3/8" wood thickness to the top of the wrist at the thinnest portion, which I find quite sufficient for best looks and plenty of strength. IOW the top line of the wrist/grip is never closer than ~0.45/0.47" to the centerline of the throughbolt and the hole-surface-to-outer-surface distance is never less than 3/8". I will admit that I laid it all out on a full-size piece of paneling beforehand ('cause I was scairt!), but this is the final dimension.

Unfortunately some originals and many reproduction Sharps rifles have a pistol-grip curve that's far too deep on the top of the wrist, and does approach the throughbolt hole too closely IMO. If you are so unfortunate as to have a stock shaped thusly then you have my sympathy, as I consider this to be the most common as well as the least-fixable of all the pre-shaped stock shortcomings. Folks who shape(d) the 1877 and 1878 models appear to be the most susceptible to this design error, I hardly ever see it on the 1874 models except for the occasional Long Range type.

When I was just a chap, I thought all this full-size-layout-beforehand thing was entirely too much work for an expert such as myself, but eventually the light dawned. I generally regard stockmaking as a necessary evil but a little layout preparation makes it a lot easier.
JMO, HTH, Joe
  
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boats
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Re: Muzzle sleds
Reply #10 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 8:34pm
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Brent

On your through hole.  I pull a couple of dodges when doing long and deep drilling. I just drilled 6  unlimited class fishing rod butts. 3/4 inch 18 inches deep in 12/4 Ash end grain. Straight and right in the center of the blanks. I have used the same method for the few through bolt stocks I have built.

First I put a small tube in my drill presses chuck and thred a plum bob through it. Drop it down to index on a hole in some plywood that has a lathe center droped in. and C clamped to the Drill press table.  The lathe center keeps the blank aligned while drilling and is large enough to index on the top hole once reversed. Align everything up nice and drill the hole from both ends. 

Start short to finish diamater with a Forstner bit for a clean entry. and then smaller than required.for the rest.  I generaly step up a couple of drills for the long hole using the long bits Electricans use for snaking wire. Then I ream to size with a home made reamer.  Some times I will use a Masonary drill thats the right size with it's shank bushed up with masking tape.  I ream with a hand held power drill and the blank clamped in my bench vise.  You can't see the rougher inside hole, only the nice and clean Forstner bit entry holes in either end.

I can do it on the lathe too but think the Drill press is better when the holes get over about 12 inches deep. This is how most bed post are drilled for tennons when building a 4 poster. I learned it from a local bed maker years ago.

Now the real trick. Once the hole is drilled I index & lay out everything else off the hole.  The wood is larger than required by an inch or so thickness and even more width so if the hole is not right in the center no problem. You just plane or in my case turn off the excess bringing everything else in line. I will admit it can be wastefull of wood but not a whole lot. In the case of your Borchart odd angle it makes it easy. The odd part is just bandsawn off the previously drilled hole.

Boats

  
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