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gunnuts
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case fillers and wads
Feb 7th, 2007 at 4:52am
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As this is my first start at loading cast bullets in rifle cartridges I have a few questions I need help from someone on about case fillers. First of all I only know of one case fill and it is puff-lon. I am sure ther e are more but I don't know of them. I am going to us this filler in my 38-55 loads. 

The other question is about the use of wads. I see there is several materials used to make wads, but I don't know what material to start with. I do have a wad puch for my 38-55 that mounts on my loading press

One last question is what would be the starting load for a 38-55 using a 300 grain bullet and SR-4759 powder. I would like the bullet to have a speed of about 1200fps. Any help would be appreciated.
  
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Re: case fillers and wads
Reply #1 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 6:29am
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Gunuts

I shoot a fair amout of 4759 in the 38/55 and never use a filler of any kind. Generaly fillers help to make a powder thats intended for a  higher preassure cartridge and load work in straght sided black powder cases.  4759 was designed for mid range loads at lower pressure and is best shot without anything else in the case.  The filler materal will change the buring rate and could well create too much preassure for that powder/case combination.  I don't have my load book at hand right now so don't want to pass along my exact charge from memory. I am sure someone will post good starting loads. 1200 fps is a good place to begin.

On wads. 

I use them in two of my 3 38/55 loads.  With Fixed Black powder loads I use a thin card wad to protect the base of the bullet.  While I buy them pre-made from Walters they are about like the materal a deck of playing cards is made from. That would be a good place to get materal for thin wads.

Breech seating Black powder I use a Walters wad over the powder to keep it in the case while loading. It needs to have some thickness in order to stay in the mouth of the case and not let powder spill into the action. They are thicker and sort of spongy, I don't know exacly what he cuts them from.

In fixed loads for smokeless I never put a wad in the case. Breech seating smokess either. With smokeless he case is about half or less full of powder and I can get it into the chamber without spilling.

As a rule don't use a wad if you don't have a good reason to.  They add another varable, less varables the better off you are

Boats
  
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Re: case fillers and wads
Reply #2 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 9:09am
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I wouldn't bother with case fillers at all. they arn't necessary and with some powders like 4759 they will migrate into the charge. 
Unlike Boats I do use wads when breach seating smokeless I use a cork wad .090 thick cut from sheet cork that you can buy in most office supply stores. seat the cork .100 to .200 off the powder to avoud ringing.

40 Rod
  
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Re: case fillers and wads
Reply #3 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 9:54am
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Using a wad will make "LESS PRESSURE" then without a wad!!!!!!!
Yes I said it right "LESS PRESSURE"
  

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Re: case fillers and wads
Reply #4 - Feb 7th, 2007 at 1:36pm
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I have been working up loads in a 38/55 this winter.

My rifle is a Ballard with a Badger barrel.  With a 282 grain bullet I found 18 gr of 4759 no wad, shoots Excellent.   

Using 4227 no wad, I had to go to 19 gr.no wad, Again excellent.

Excellent to me is minute of angle.

I also use the same charges with a 310 gr bullet of the same design, just a longer bore riding section.  I get similar results. 

4759  burns cleaner when using a wad, in my experience.
I have a cronograph, but never use it. These loads have been safe in my Ballard
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Re: case fillers and wads
Reply #5 - Feb 8th, 2007 at 8:30am
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Another powder that you might try for breach seating is Vihta vouri N110. It is a stick powder that looks a lot like 4895. Its performance is similar to 4759 except it burns clean. No unburned powder left in your barrel. I have been using it in 38-55 and 40-70s with good results.

40 Rod

  
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Re: case fillers and wads
Reply #6 - Feb 9th, 2007 at 5:34pm
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Westerner

Not to critique your load but I suspect your unburned powder using 4759 is due to the light charge.  4227 is faster than 4759 and given your sucessfull 19 gr load using 4227  18 of 4759 is probably too light. I bet if you increase the 4759 a bit you will get better performance and elimanate the unburned powder.

Having said that I also use 4227 in my 38/55 and can't see a lot of difference between it and 4759. I shot mostly 4759 in that rifle when shooting smokeless when I used Fixed ammo. The Load was intended to pratice for BPCS and shoot a local offhand match that required fixed ammo but not Black powder

Now that I have re-stocked the rifle as a Schuetzen and had the barrel throated I shoot it breech seated with either Black powder or 4227. 4759 may do Ok but it's too hard to measure at the range and I never use it anymore.

40 rod, On wads in smokeless. If a case or action require a wad to get into the chamber with out spilling it's surely the way to go. The short 32's need a wad to hold powder in while breech seating some rifles actions even with a long 32/40 need it too. 

I found the hard way spilling a casefull in the action will shut things down fast. Once I had to dissamble my entire action at the bench duing a Hudson match to get the powder out. Now  back in the cars trunk I keep a can of compressed air. Have not spilled any since but if I do blowing is the quick way to get back to shooting.  I still avoid wads unless there is some good reason to use one.

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Re: case fillers and wads
Reply #7 - Feb 9th, 2007 at 8:03pm
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Boats, I agree one hundred percent.  The load's I posted were used to test a barrel that I had just lapped.  

I thought those loads appropriate for starting loads.

The rifle I'm working with is my black powder schutzen rifle.

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