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Green_Frog
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Weird Winchester Loading Tool
Jan 27th, 2007 at 9:20pm
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Went to the Roanoke, VA gun show today and from a single shot standpoint it was pretty much of a bust EXCEPT, I did manage to pick up a Model 1888 loading tool, made and marked by Wincehster Rep. Arms Co [sic] in Cal .38-55.  There was no depriming pin (or whatever was used with it) present, but the rest of the mechanism APPEARS to be all there.  Now the problem...how the heck does this thing work?  I can't find my Chamberlain and Quigley, and the Reloading Tools Collectors' Board showed pix but was not much help with the actual use of this device.  I can only say that it looks like Rube Goldberg would have loved it.  Does anybody out there have any experience with actually making ammo with one of these things?

As always, TIA - Froggie
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Weird Winchester Loading Tool
Reply #1 - Jan 29th, 2007 at 9:25pm
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OK, I found my copies of Chamberlain and Quigley's AND Kelver's reloading tool books and read their descriptions of the 1888 tool and now I understand less than before!  If anybody out there knows anyting at all helpful, I would be MOST appreciative.  HELP  Lips Sealed

Froggie
  
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blackpowdermax
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Not weird......unique!!!
Reply #2 - Feb 5th, 2007 at 9:08pm
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Froggie.....congratulations, that is a tough tool to find, especially with the die (seems to get lost a lot and it's the only thing that has the caliber marking).

It's not the hardest Winchester tool to find, but it is right up there at the top.  So a good find.

To use the tool, you decap using the decapping pin and a hammer (or rock if you prefer), completely separate from the rest of the tool.  Priming is accomplished by placing the case in the hole on the side of the main body and seating it with the pin in the handle.  Powder is from a little brass measure (in your case marked "48") and then the wad with the bullet started by hand.  Into the die it goes with the rim into the "shell holder" in the bottom of the frame and the top of the die into the threaded handle at the top of the frame.  Start turning and it will full length size the case, seat the bullet and crimp it in place all in one operation.  It is a PITA to use, but you will be one of the few in the world actually loading with a Winchester 1888 reloading tool.   Roll Eyes

You need to use a cast bullet from a Winchester mold for the proper length, but unlike the tool, those are plentiful.

I have a set for a 40-82 Winchester in a Hiwall and use it.  It will make you appreciate your more modern tools.   Grin

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Give it a try, lots of Winchester molds in 38-55 on eBay.

max
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Weird Winchester Loading Tool
Reply #3 - Feb 5th, 2007 at 10:26pm
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Thanks, blackpowdermax!!

    I was beginnning to wonder about ever finding anybody who had actually used one of these oddities.  Although I didn't get the primer punch or charge cup with this one, like you said, having the rest makes it workable.  I have lots of random punches and a charge cup can be fabbed up or I can even use a plastic one (UGGHH!  Undecided ) from Lee.  I once had an opportunity to buy the original .38-55 Winchester mould, but missed it somehow.  Cry  I notice that the original .32-40 Winchester mould is almost identical to the Ideal 319247;  is there any such cross match for the .38-55?  I'm thinking maybe the 375248, which I do have(?)  Huh

    Anyway and regardless, I have (as you say) the distinction of being one of the few out there to possess this strange tool, and could if necessary actually find a way to load with it!   Cool  Thanks again for the info and the encouragement.

Regards,
the Green Frog
  
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fallingblock
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Re: Weird Winchester Loading Tool
Reply #4 - Feb 9th, 2007 at 2:46pm
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Bill West in the book Winchester For Over a Century Vol  III has a good description of how the tool is used. Regarding how depriming is done. "The case was first placed in the rim slot of the tool, and the fired peimer was expelled by exerting pressure with the screw." 
Cheers,
fallingblock
  

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Laurie
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dick_eesley
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Re: Weird Winchester Loading Tool
Reply #5 - Feb 10th, 2007 at 5:44pm
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Frog   send a note and pictures to Dick Chamberlain
PO Box 230  Flournoy, CA  96029-2320  He was a teacher for many years and now is gentleman farmer in N. California  He was my first sponsor for a rifle range in S.Calif   we had moved toWhittier Calif. and couldn't find a range   found his article "Light loads for the .32-40" in the Rifleman and called him (Same town) He is a one fine guy  although a teacher his hand written notes need some close scrutiny!  dick eesley Grin Cheesy
  
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dick_eesley
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Re: Weird Winchester Loading Tool
Reply #6 - Feb 10th, 2007 at 5:45pm
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Frog   send a note and pictures to Dick Chamberlain
PO Box 230  Flournoy, CA  96029-2320  He was a teacher for many years and now is gentleman farmer in N. California  He was my first sponsor for a rifle range in S.Calif   we had moved toWhittier Calif. and couldn't find a range   found his article "Light loads for the .32-40" in the Rifleman and called him (Same town) He is a one fine guy  although a teacher his hand written notes need some close scrutiny!  dick eesley Grin Cheesy
  
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blackpowdermax
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Re: Weird Winchester Loading Tool
Reply #7 - Mar 3rd, 2007 at 6:15pm
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Hey Froggie.....since you've started your "collection", here's another one for you.................

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They only made these in 9 or 10 calibers, so shouldn't take you too long to collect them all.   Roll Eyes Grin

max
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Weird Winchester Loading Tool
Reply #8 - Mar 3rd, 2007 at 7:41pm
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When the price being asked goes to that level it passes from wierd, through bizzare, straight to insane!   Shocked  I think I could replace about half of my antique tool "collection" for about that amount.  I wonder how he would respond to an offer to sell him one?  Roll Eyes  I think there are folks on eBay who take the same attitude as the Nigerian Trust Fund scammers, "There's one born every minute and maybe this is the minute mine will be on the Internet."  That would be an appropriate price if the decimal were moved one place to the left.  Undecided

Anyway, thanks for a good laugh.   Grin  Grin  Grin

Froggie
  
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blackpowdermax
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Re: Weird Winchester Loading Tool
Reply #9 - Mar 3rd, 2007 at 9:25pm
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Actually Froggie, that's not the buyers asking price, that's what it sold for.  And two bidders were willing to go to that level.  See, you didn't do so bad at the gunshow after all.  I've only been able to snag one in 10+ years, and I look all of the time.  I've seen others, but they also went high, not this high, but pretty well up there.

max
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Weird Winchester Loading Tool
Reply #10 - Mar 3rd, 2007 at 9:51pm
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GULP!  Shocked  I didn't have my glasses on and saw that 8 on bid history as a 0 instead.   Undecided

OK, now I've actually gotten two screaming deals on antique reloading stuff at the Roanoke show, the 1888 loading tool and a #6 Ideal powder measure whose purchase I arranged at a show there several years ago.  Maybe I ought to pay more attention to the stuff showing up after all.  I will say that the patrons of the show walked past that loader for about 2 hours on Sat morning by the time I made up my mind to make the guy an offer for it.  The old Southern saying about blind hogs and acorns will have to be changed to, "Even a blind FROG finds a fly every now and then!"   Wink

Thanks for calling it to my attention and you can bet I will take better care to guard its condition from here on out!   Smiley

Froggie
  
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