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JLC
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Left hand varmint/traget rifle
Dec 17th, 2006 at 12:23am
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I want to buy a varmint/target single shot rifle  - trick is that it has to be left hand if a bolt action. I want the most accurate gun I can buy. 

I was thinking of a Remington 40 XB left hand, or to have a varminter built on a Martini action. Other suggestions?  What caliber/cartridge would you go for, if aiming to shoot varmints up to coyote size?  The only varmint gun I have is a BSA Martini in 17 HM2, only suitable for groundhogs and such. I am looking for a step up from rimfire to centerfire, and distances up to 300 yards.

JLC
  
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Re: Left hand varmint/traget rifle
Reply #1 - Dec 17th, 2006 at 2:49am
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I dont know what a 40 xp is. If i was you I would get a 25/20SS or a 25/51 stevens rifle. If you try to shoot varmits with a modern space age 40 xb super gun, the critters will see it and hide underground. The coyotes will stay just out of range. Their smarter than you think. Now if you show up with an old stevens rifle they dont take you serious. Thats what lulls them to sleep. I shot a prairie dog last summer with my 25/20SS. he was so surprised he clutched his chest, fell over backwards and kicked about three times. When you take um down like that its very gratifying. I'm sure he didnt think I could do it. I showed him! As for Martinis, there a good reliable rifle. If you are looking for a Martini , keep checking on this forum in the for sale section. They seem to change hands a lot. I dont think varmits take them serious either. It must be the looks.    Joe.      
  

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harry_eales
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Re: Left hand varmint/traget rifle
Reply #2 - Dec 17th, 2006 at 6:24am
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Hello JLC,

Like you I am a left hander, so I appreciate your problem. I must ask why anyone vermin (varmint) hunting needs a 'repeating rifle'? If you miss a sitting target at 2-300 yards with your first shot,  Embarrassed you haven't a cat in hells chance of hitting it when it is running at full throttle for the nearest bolt hole, so a rapid reload isn't really a necessity. 

Only one in ten people are left handed, so there is far less demand for left handed rifles, something to think about if you ever wanted to sell it in the future. Therefore a single shot rifle is probably a far better choice.

If your going for a high pressure cartridge, then select a currently produced single shot rifle (there are quite a few to pick from). Leave the antiques to those enthusiasts who like shooting the older cartridges.

If you really must have 'fire power' then a 5.56mm mini gun will suit your purposes admirably, a five to ten second burst through a Gopher colony will certainly knock one or two over, and you'll have enough empty brass to keep you busy reloading for a month.  Grin

Most rifles can shoot more accurately that their owners hold them, and although you may be able to shoot fantastic groups from a bench rest, it's a lot more difficult to do so in the field, with little, if any, solid support, even shooting prone, your going to have stones and other uncomfortable items under your body.  Undecided

The measure of a good hunter is hitting his target every time, not burning a lot of powder for little or no reward. No matter where you hunt, your not going to get multiple targets offering themselves every few seconds. You'll be lucky to get two or three shots off in half an hour and probably less than that. 

A single shot rifle is all you will ever need for vermin. Of course, opinions are like ***holes, everbody has one.  Grin

Harry

   

  
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JLC
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Re: Left hand varmint/traget rifle
Reply #3 - Dec 17th, 2006 at 9:31am
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Hmmm... seems there is some misunderstanding here.  The Remington 40 XB I am thinking of buying is a traditional wood stocked single shot bolt action rifle.  The Remington 40 can be ordered in some calibers as a repeater and with Kevlar stock, but that's not what I have in mind.

Yes, I am aware it would be difficult to sell a left hand rifle - but I have never had such a thing, and I don't think I would ever sell it... so I am still considering it!

I have a few Martinis, and I would not mind having another one....but I will certainly consider a Stevens, Low/High Wall or other single shot. One problem I found with the traditional single shots in varminting configuration, is that the last three which tickled my fancy had right hand stocks with very prominent cheek pieces - and I did not want the extra expense of replacing the stocks.

25 caliber would be interesting - I only had one 25 rifle, a BSA Martini in an Australian wildcatt caliber (25-303). Acurate and little recoil. Would not mind having another 25, or a 243 Win maybe?

I know nothing about the Stevens in 25/20SS or 25/51 caliber, so I'll look into it!

Thanks for the responses,

JLC

  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Left hand varmint/traget rifle
Reply #4 - Dec 17th, 2006 at 11:11am
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As a fellow Lefty, I can tell you... if you have the opportunity to buy a nice "Left bolt" rifle; DO NOT pass it up.  Buy it.

At the same time, there would be nothing wrong (at all) with building a varminter on a large frame martini action.  Maybe in something rimmed like a .225 Win. There is also the .222 Rimmed, but brass is a bit spendy. 
Then there is, of course, inventing your OWN cartridge.. take a rimmed case that is plentiful and cheap ( .303 brit, or .30-30 come to mind), saw it off short, neck it down to .22 or .25.. and there you go.  (of course, I'm oversimplifying just a tiny bit...).

The 40XB is a spendy piece of hardware if you're looking at new... but if you've located one used, quit yoru browser, grab your Visa, and go buy it! NOW!  They're VERY uncommon in left hand, and will make you a VERY fine rifle!
Another choice to look at is the Savage bolt action in left hand.  With a bit of tuning, they can keep up with anything from Remington and Winchester.

Also keep looking around for the Low/High Walls... I know the problem of the "roll over" cheek piece all too well... but if you keep looking, you'll find one with a cheeckpiece you can live with. 

Have you considered a Ruger #1?  I know a lot of folks locally have had trouble getting theirs to shoot, but then again, there are a lot of folks HERE that have had no such problems (or at least, they have solved them to their satisfaction..).

My overall plan if I was in the same spot?
Go buy that 40X today... Start shooting it and load developing.
Then pick up a good martini action, and barrel, and slab of wood, and start the process of having a nice custom Martini  (or Low Wall or High Wall!) built while you are shooting your 40X.

Just one Lefty's opinion Cheesy
Paul F.
  
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Re: Left hand varmint/traget rifle
Reply #5 - Dec 17th, 2006 at 11:15am
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JLC, the goodnatured(?) jibes at the Remington bolt gun were probably the result of ASSRA's stated competition rules allowing virtually any single shot EXCEPT a bolt action, but for your question, if you are looking for a dedicated varmint rifle, you won't be competing anyway.  Of the available LH bolt guns, the Remington stands out as having a great reputation, and I believe both Savage and Ruger (??) may have made LH versions of their bolt guns at some time, if not currently.  Again, they are a little outside of the purview of this forum...not a jibe, just the way it is.  Probably most of the members of this board would have to admit to having one of those funny looking things in their gun room, but are just to proud to!  Wink

Back to your real question, IF you want a classic old cartridge with a rim, some of the original actions in varmint trim would do well...there were a world of high-walls, Stevens 44 1/2s and Borchardts built in varmint calibers up through about the mid-50s and they change hands pretty frequently.  If I were looking for an original caliber to go after yodel dogs, I would look for a .25-35 chambering with a fast enough twist to handle bullets in the 115-125 gr category.  If I were after a very flat shooting varmint wildcat or semi wildcat, I'd go for one of the .22s based on the same case such as the .219 Zipper, or perhaps the .22 R Lovell/.22-3000 types.  If I wanted rimless AND single shot, Ruger #1 in .25-06 or .22-250 would be my first choices, I suppose unless I wanted a crank on the side   Roll Eyes   

BTW, the very scarcity of LH bolt guns will actually work in your favor if you DO decide to sell it...the ratio of LH/RH people far exceeds the ratio of LH/RH rifles, so the demand will probably be there!   Cheesy  Well, I've rambled enough, but maybe there was something here that will be of help.   Cheesy

Regards,
the Green Frog
  
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JLC
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Re: Left hand varmint/traget rifle
Reply #6 - Dec 17th, 2006 at 12:32pm
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Savage does make left-hand bolt action varminters - like the Model 12 low profile, available in 223 Rem, 22-250 Rem, or 204 Ruger.  By all accounts, they are accurate, but I have a hard time warming up to the look of the thing!  I have read too many reports of Ruger #1 not shooting well, some even after considerable tuning,  to consider one. I don't think Ruger makes a left-hand bolt action varminter, not that I could see on their website anyway.

The only two heavy barrelled Remington "left-bolt" action rifles I know for sale used and locally,  are both from the custom shop, but in the wrong caliber: one is a 30-338, the other a 338 Magnum (ouch!)  If I get a "left bolt" 40 XB, I'll order it new, wood stock, single shot.

I might just build a Martini varminter in some 22 or 25 caliber.  Might even build two, each in a different caliber! Probably could do that for little or no more than the price of one 40 XB. I do like Martinis, both with small and large actions.  I have a Douglas match barreled BSA Martini Model 12, in 17 Hornady Mach 2 rimfire, which is a real tack driver ! 

JLC
  
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Re: Left hand varmint/traget rifle
Reply #7 - Dec 17th, 2006 at 7:01pm
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Just what cartridge do you propose for your coyote hunting/killing rifle.  Are you taking coyotes to sell on the fur market or controlling problem coyotes.

If the former, cartridges larger than .224 caliber with slower expanding bullets require less sewing on pelts befor streatching than the super speed numbers. A local trapper who hunts and takes over 100 coyotes annually prefers a .30-06 and uses 180 gr. cast bullets to minimize the damage and sewing required.

If you are controlling coyotes with no thought of the fur market, one of the larger .224 calibers will also work as will lighter bullets in larger calibers. However at the longer ranges, even the larger .22s are not the most consistent, as bullets have failed to penetrate the chest cavity and left large surface wounds.

How you hunt will also have a bearing on the rifle and its weight that you pefer.  Are you going to be carrying the rifle most of the time, calling or will it be in or on a vehicle until the coyote is spotted? In the first instance, weight becomes a factor, especially in snow conditions. 

My preferences - If I were building a dedicated rifle for coyote hunting and cost didn't matter, I would get a Hagn small size single shot with their 28 heavy itegral ribed octagonal barrel and exhibition Turkish walnut stock, classic style with left hand stock and go hunting.

As it stands, I pick up a Browning 78 in 6mm Rem. or a Ruger #1 in 7x57 with the calls and go.

If you have to have a bolt rifle, I would check out the Savage, or look for a Carl Gustav (formerly Husqavarna) 6000/8000 series in left hand. Didn't like my left handed Remington 700 .270 at all and gave it away.

  
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Re: Left hand varmint/traget rifle
Reply #8 - Dec 17th, 2006 at 7:14pm
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I say get that slab of wood and go for it!   Wink  Just my two .02 cents

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Don G.
  
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Re: Left hand varmint/traget rifle
Reply #9 - Dec 17th, 2006 at 7:40pm
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Finally, a real varmint rifle. Left hand even. Thank you!   Joe.
  

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Re: Left hand varmint/traget rifle
Reply #10 - Dec 17th, 2006 at 8:41pm
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Hello

Just some food for thought.  I am 75 years old and started shooting a .22  (Springfield single shot) by myself at about 10 years old.  I started shooting right handed for a year or two and wasn't satisfied with the results and switched over to left hand. Instant good results.  I found out later my left eye was dominent and was darn near blind in the right eye.  Anyway, the Army tried to switch me back but I wouldn't have any part of it.  Been a "Leftie" every since.

Now the food,  I believe the design of a so called "Right Hand" single shot bolt rifle in fact is actually designed for a left hander and the so called "Left Hand" single shot rifle is actually designed for a Right hander.  Try it your self and see if it's not more normal to operate the bolt from the left hand postion with the right hand and vice versa.  The only time it gets a little weird is trying to put a clip in a right hand rifle with your right hand if shooting left handed.  When shooting a single shot left handed working the bolt with your right hand is completely normal and so is working the bolt with your left hand if shooting from the right hand position.

In summary if I switched to shooting "Right Handed", I would then buy a left hand bolt gun.

Of course, I have always been noted for being a little weird!!

Another analogy!  I got my first rod and reel about the same time as the .22.  I started casting right handed and after finding my brother's plug in all the best spots first while I was casting, changing the rod to my left hand and cranking over and over it got me to thinking.  Why am I doing this?  I learned to cast with my left hand and crank with my right, the rod never leaving my left hand.  Why the reel manufacturers designed reels with the crank on the right side when 90% of the fishermen are right handed, one has to wonder?  A true right handed reel should have the crank on the left side.  Anyway I have made my self a little dizzy so I will let the experts figure it out.

Don. G.
« Last Edit: Dec 17th, 2006 at 10:37pm by smoke810 »  
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uteeqtee
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Re: Left hand varmint/traget rifle
Reply #11 - Dec 18th, 2006 at 1:21am
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Quote:
Savage does make left-hand bolt action varminters - like the Model 12 low profile, available in 223 Rem, 22-250 Rem, or 204 Ruger.  By all accounts, they are accurate, but I have a hard time warming up to the look of the thing!   
JLC


Just last weekend, I shot with some guys and had a chance to handle a new Savage single-shot bolt action in .204 Ruger.  After one sighter, I was able consistently to hit a 12 in metal swinger at 450 yards, off the bench.  I was impressed with the caliber--virtually no recoil or muzzle blast, but the new Savage trigger, although good, is a bit strange to get used to. The hand-cranked guns might look ugly, but a lot of people on this ASSRA site tease the heck out of Martini owners, too, for the same reason!  They're ALL fun: beauty is in the eye of the holder, and true beauty in a rifle means it's results on the target!  (In my never to be humble opinion.....)

Tommy
  
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Re: Left hand varmint/traget rifle
Reply #12 - Dec 18th, 2006 at 2:47am
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I'd go for a custom small-actioned martini rifle, chambered for 5.6 x50R - not 22-250 performance, but getting cclose when you handload...
It should be good out to 300.
The round is rimmed, and is more or less a lengthened .222 rem mag.   Of course, brass, will be a tad more expensive, but should last a while.
  
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