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GWarden
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large dia. 38/55 bbl
Sep 26th, 2006 at 4:16pm
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In one of the past issues of the ASSRA journal was a article on a large dia bbl 2", I belive it was in 38/55. My question on such large dia. barrel: is it necessary to fire several more shots with a large diam bbl. than with a conventional diameter bbl. to get it to the temp where it is consistent in grouping?
Bob
  

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rimfire
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Re: large dia. 38/55 bbl
Reply #1 - Sep 26th, 2006 at 7:35pm
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40 Rod has a large bbl 16 sided if I remember correctly - 
chime in 40 Rod - u all have a good day now - rimfire
  
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40_Rod
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Re: large dia. 38/55 bbl
Reply #2 - Sep 27th, 2006 at 8:23am
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What you saw may have been my Big Dog. Its a 2" double octagon that is now a 40-70. When I finally ironed out the problems with the origional chambering and got it shooting it only took 2 shots to get her shooting right. due to the mass of the barrel I don't think I can shoot it fast enough to warm it up breach seating.

40 Rod
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: large dia. 38/55 bbl
Reply #3 - Sep 27th, 2006 at 11:56am
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Isn't the whole idea of a large diameter barrel that it NOT get hot as you shoot it?   Undecided

Whatever temp that mass of steel has is going to have a lot of thermal inertia due to its heat capacity, so whatever temp change it has is not likely to be very fast.  JMHO...  Wink

Froggie
  
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Dale53
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Re: large dia. 38/55 bbl
Reply #4 - Sep 27th, 2006 at 6:59pm
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My experiences with .22 smallbore tend to make me believe that "warming up" is merely a matter of bore condition. Those .22's never really get hot from shooting (sure will if they are exposed to the direct rays of the sun, however). Bore condition effects the center fires in much the same way.

The advantage of a HEAVY barrel is the way the rifle handles on the bags. The heavier, the less untoward movement. Hopefully, that leads to better groups...

Dale53
  
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4227
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Re: large dia. 38/55 bbl
Reply #5 - Sep 27th, 2006 at 8:39pm
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Dale. I feel that I must respectfully disaggre with you regarding the warming up of .22 barrels.    It has been my experience of over 50 years of small bore shooting, both indoor and outdoor that MOST barrels require a few shots to warm up the interior of the barrel. Not that the barrell will get hot as you note (in direct sunlight). Having shot at many different locations in the States, Ceneral and South America I have found that the rifle will place the first 2 - 5 shots in a different location than the true zero location. I routinely fire 5 shots "INTO THE HILL" before going to my target. I have had many rim-fire rifles from a early Winchester 52, a Winchester 52D, Several Anschutz, Remington 40x and two BSA Mk II and MKIII which I still have and shoot. ALL preformed better with warm up shots. I beleve the heaver target barrels tend to reduce or eliminate barrel vibrations and does reduce warming in a long shoot. AS far as the centerfire barrels being heavier there are several reasons. Resist getting hot, regidity for much reduced barrel "whipping", reduced recoil, and they look "neet"!   Wink
My BSA MK111 using Winchester MK3 ammo will and has shot many"possables" at 50', 50yds, and 100yds. I think I shot a 247 one day at EG. (3 leakers)  Cry   Much Fun all the way around. I still have several bricks of MK3 and NO, it's not for sale!!! 
I also beleve that many fine .22 rf target fifles have been ruined by over cleaning. I only clean once or twice during a season and then only with a patch with Hoppies and then dry. It takes several rounds to bring it back to true zero. Always clean from the breech end!   Roll Eyes
I hope to resume my shooting shortly after my eye surgery this Friday. I will be in touch. Don't forget my photo prints.  4227 Kiss
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: large dia. 38/55 bbl
Reply #6 - Sep 28th, 2006 at 2:11am
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4227,
Would this really be 'warming up', or as could be the case with .22's, reconditioning the bore with fresh lubricant?  No matter, I also do believe a couple of warming-up shots are needed for best performance - although I do tend more towards the lubricant thing though...
  
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4227
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Re: large dia. 38/55 bbl
Reply #7 - Sep 28th, 2006 at 3:00am
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Hello Martin. Good question. I really think it's a matter of warming up as opposed to new lube. Between relays before flagging you action became the norm safety practice I would place a fired case in the chamber with the action open to keep the breeze wafing thru. If the break was longer than I liked I would again dump several rounds into the bank before going on my official target. In the Canal Zone at the Balboa Gun Club we has the target frames for small bore on a trolly tract that went to 100 yds so we didn't have to walk down and back. Made target changing a lot faster and easier!  The fresh lube thought may be valid also. I don't know. I do know however I had better not go for record at the start.   I developed the practice of dumping 5 shots before go on the record target sighter. At 50' we shot the A-36 target and the regular NRA 50 yard 5 bull for both 50 & 100 yd. All out doors. The Balboa Gun Club was a Great Range. Wonder what ever happened to it after we gave the Canal Zone away?
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: large dia. 38/55 bbl
Reply #8 - Sep 28th, 2006 at 9:16am
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4227, I sent you a PM.
John had that heavy barreled gun made for an off-hand rifle don't you know? 

We had an article on it a couple issues back in the SSRJ, the title was something about "Big Dog"

None of my rifles will put the 1st bullet from a cold barrel in the same spot that subsequent rounds will go.  the 22s clearly do not heat up as much as the 38-55s but both require 3-5 shots after a cool down before they get back to where the crosshairs are supposed to be putting them.
  The 22 especially seems to take longer to get up to working temp.  It is really noticable at the 22 only shoots, since they are the 1st and last of the season at EG--especailly for the 1st relay of the morning.
   I personally suspect that, while the barrel never really gets hot, the interior needs to get up to a threshold temperature for the lube to be consistant.  With the center fires the actual barrel heat/expansion on the bedding and between scope blocks may be more of a factor
I have not paid a lot of attention to the science/art of military style sniper tech.  However as I recall they spend a lot of time on learning exactly where that very first bullet and subsequent rounds will go.  They might have something to teach us on this topic


  

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Dale53
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Re: large dia. 38/55 bbl
Reply #9 - Sep 28th, 2006 at 1:12pm
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We are not actually in disagreement here. It is a matter of semantics. What I can bore conditioning, you call "warm up". Some time ago I did an article on the .22's which covered this in some detail. The info I got from actual firing tests.

Again, we are NOT in disagreement but merely using different words to say the same thing.

I hope to get back from North Carolina Sunday evening. Hopefully, in the following week I can get some obligations satisfied. 

I would not, at all, mind a  "reminder" e-mail. I do not wish to disappoint anyone but being out of state for a couple of weeks has my so-called brain a little behind times.

Dale53

  
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Dale53
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Re: large dia. 38/55 bbl
Reply #10 - Sep 28th, 2006 at 1:18pm
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I would like to add one other comment regarding .22's.

I have been following, in the past year or so, Precision Shooting's series on .22 bench rifles by Bill Calfrey (sp?). This gentleman is MY personal .22 guru at this time. We have never met, but I am fascinated with his discourse on barreling .22's. He also has many interesting things to say regarding cleaning that are brand new to the sport. 

He is way ahead of me on many aspects of .22 performance, but many of the things he states has also been my experience. That leads me very strongly to believe the rest of what he has to say.

I am going to write Precision Shooting and ask that they put his articles in a small book for all of us to enjoy for a long time to come.

Dale53
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: large dia. 38/55 bbl
Reply #11 - Sep 28th, 2006 at 2:38pm
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If you like Mr Calfee's articles (and I do also!), you might wish to join the Smallbore Journal web forum (part of the Shooters Journal pages shootersjournal.com) and read some discussions by Mr Mike Ross of Ross Precision.
He has many points of agreement with Mr Calfee's writings, and also has some fascinating ideas himself that have been tested by some top-level smallbore prone shooters, and have not been found lacking.

Paul F.
  
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4227
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Re: large dia. 38/55 bbl
Reply #12 - Sep 28th, 2006 at 2:46pm
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Dale 53.  Yes I know and aggree. I was just turning your clicks   Wink
"Again, we are NOT in disagreement but merely using different words to say the same thing" Yes the Precission Shooting articles are very good. 
The "cold barrel" first shot is a very interesting subject and one that MOST (good) snipers know all about. It takes a while to learn where this is and will vary as the  temp. varies.  Very important to our snipers. Having some limited knowage and experience with this. Remember the riots in Panama back in the late 50's?  My M-2 Springfield worked great and would shoot a "cold shot" zero for several shots as long as you didn't shoot too fast.    Some more things to discuss at the next "under the awning" gathering.    Kiss
  
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