I just shoot the load that is most accurate, whatever it's velocity happens to be.  Most are supersonic all the way there.

My .22 rf works best subsonic all the way from chamber to target frame

Brent

Michael,
    The better shooters I know have said they want to start their bullets around 1450 fps. I have heard one shooter talk of 1500 + and I will not argue the point with him but I think the majority will be below 1500. I have not clocked my load (>32-40, 4227 powder, 220 gr bullet) but do know grouping was not so good until I followed advice and bumped the load from 14.0 to 14.7 gr. The guy to ask would be Jim Borton but he's at Etna Green this weekend no doubt making more of his wee little groups.

Don

I participated in an brief informal discussion group with JB at EG this weekend and all I can say is that it sounds like when he and Barry get around to publishing the results of their experimentation WHOLE HEARDs of sacred cows.  Barry seems to enjoy having a go at the windmills  anyway and since they ahve a very complex and advanced computer analysis system set up with multiple chronos etc; he is able to test a lot of traditional wisdom in a very empeircal way.  the big problem is they are so busy testing and experimenting I don't know when they'll get around to the writing end of it.

Brent;
I worked very hard with the 40/65 ( a couple of silhouette rifles) and I had best results with a case full of Swiss 1½ compressed .085" with a LDPE .060" wad and a 422 grain bullet (30/1). My bullet was seated into the lands, using a straight falling block '75 Sharps and later a Browning BPCR (I seated the cartridge with my thumb). I was using a NEI mould. I did not chronograph this load but it was consistently VERY good out to 500 yards. 

500 yards was the greatest distance that I shot on paper. In front of witnesses I put 10 shots in six inches at 500 yards. On another occasion, I put 8 in six inches and had two that made total group size at 9 inches. The two flyers were not the load or rifle, I got caught by two 180 degree reversals.

That kind of performance is difficult to achieve with normal configured stocks. They are just not forgiving off bags..

Sorry I don't have chronograph data but my theory at the time was to load as much black powder as would shoot well.

Glenn Fewless has been working hard in the last couple or three years and I would expect that he has some "more up to date" data. Maybe he will chime in here. He has performed at a VERY high level in front of "God and everybody" in both long range and silhouette and I suspect that he has learned a thing or two about making black powder cartridges perform.

Dale53

Re: black vs. smokeless powder.

One gent with considerable experience tells me his best black powder load for .32-40 shoots to the same sight setting at 200 yd as he uses for his smokeless load. I don't know if either have been chrono'd but this would indicate similar velocities and based on his smokeless charges they are not subsonic. I would guess mid 1400s.

Hello,
Interesting, I would like to read what JB and BD book will say. Maybe when time permits Jim can give a comment on this.

I have a lot of time with the transonic range. I really have no idea why some of my loads work well in this area and some don’t. This with black powder. I have a pretty good idea what it takes to make them shoot well with fixed but not the why. Speaking of fixed ammo, kinda.... breach seating with BP is historically well known but not many today (in my limited experences) can shoot it as well as fixed. 

We hear a lot of talk about this transonic range being bad for top accuracy. I’m not sure any load I use with black powder necessarily qualifies as top accuracy to date. I have the few wall hangers from working up a load. Day in and day out they don’t get shot at paper so it is hard to know. They have been my offhand loads for silhouette.

I think I am looking for a direction to begin working with a 38-55 smokeless load. So far the smokeless subsonic - muzzle to 200y loads have not been dazzling. 
I think I will not over look what I would call the upper range, velocity wise (1400's). Had I not checked in with you all I would have likely overlooked this range. Thanks for the replys.

-If I could find my South African match roster I could come up with MartiniBelgian's name.


Michael

I have done extensive testing of many nose configurations of 32 caliber breech seated bullets with various twist rates at 200 yards. My test equipment allows me to capture both the muzzle and 200 yard velocity of each shot fired. Nose form (shape) has more to do with retaining bullet velocity at 200 yards than weight alone. For instance, changing the nose ogive by 1 radius has more effect than adding 5 grains bullet weight at 200 yds., here I'm speaking of small metplat (.040 dia.) spitzer nose bullets. A 5radius 210 grain spitzer bullet requires a muzzle velocity of approx. 1475fs to retain greater than 1175fs velocity at 200yds, while a 6radius bullet of the same weight will result in a 200 yd vel. of approx. 1200fs. A flat nose bullet of 210 grains such as a Pope style or one having a metplat of .100 dia. would require a MV in excess of 1525fs to stay above 1175fs at 200 yds. With the relatively fast buring powders we use for shooting breech seated bullets breech pressure becomes a factor at around 1500fs and 210 grain bullets. So we are faced with very narrow limits when it comes to MV and pressures if we expect to keep bullet velocities at 200 yards above the supersonic. Further, since the velocity range is quite narrow MV standard deviations should be 2-3fs (extreme MV spreads at 10 or less fs). A stable bullet will yield comparable 200 yd SD's and ES's to those taken at the muzzle. Not all powder/primer combinations will result in maintaining muzzle velocity ES's close to or below 10fs. Under very calm shooting conditions variations in MV's (30-40fs) will have very little difference in the vertical impact of the bullet as compared to the horizontal effect caused by cross wind. While spitzer bullets offer higher BC's than flatnose bullets one must keep in mind that increasing the ogive radius will result in weight loss for a given bullet length, so when selecting a bullet design this must kept in mind. Right now my tests seem to indicate a bullet of 205-210grains and a nose ogive of 5-7 perform well.  My comments are again based on breech seated bullets and smokeless loads.

7~