OK here I am asking questions again.

I have, this weekend, been to see the owner of an original Ballard carbine in 56-50 caliber.

I didnt know much about the rifle before going other than it was a Ballard. I was interested in purchasong it to do up to use in  long range competition shooting.

After viewing the rifle and talkng to the current owner (in his 70's) I was offered the rifle for US$620.

It needs restoring. It needs lots of TLC. It needs to be shot again. What a wonderful rifle.

The old man explained to me that his grandfather purchased the rifle from an American who came to New Zealand in 1866-67.

When he bought it the American took it out of his trunk where it was stored with his military uniform. Aparrently this member of your country had had enough of war and came to NZ and set himself up in business as a SHOEMAKER.

The old man I spoke to today told me that his grandfather had pased the rifle on to him when he was a very young boy.

The woodwork shows its age, all battered and worn. The action has a light rust all over but the action stil opens and the manual extractor is still working fine, Serial number is 104x

The barrel has lost all blueing and has patches of pitting, its bore is dirty but I can definitely see rifling down there. Needs a damm good clean.

There is a written family history with the rifle including the name of the American who brought it to this country. The current owner will dig it out for me.

I have just tonight sold one of my motorbikes to pay for the rifle. I am enmaoured of it and its history.

Now for my reason for posting in this group.

It is chambered for the Spencer caliber 56-50. If I can restore this rifle I would love to shoot it but know absolutely nothing about the caliber. Where can I get brass?

Where can I get moulds for this calibers projectiles? What sort of loading in BP should I be able to use? How accurate is this caliber and to what range?

I told you I am a complete novice. To this caliber not to shooting or BP, so all you Spencer shooters help me with your advice. Tell me about the 56-50 round.

I have been talking to a machinist today and he thinks he will be able to take the original and use it as a template with which to mill a new receiver for me. He wll do it for cost of the material as he is as intrigued bymyself with it. I will try and input the dimensions into CAD to see how it will go there. Do I sound excited. I should


Dai

Details, Man...I wanna have details!! 

I'm really happy for you and compared to prices I have seen here in VA in the USA, it would appear that you got a very good deal.  The main detail I would love to have is the name of the manufacturer.  Ballard himself didn't ever manufacture the rifles, so there will be a name like Merrimack Arms, Dwight, Chapin and Co., etc.

As for shooting this old piece, the original ammo was rimfire, I believe, which is long out of production, but there have been some rather clever conversions done as well as some ammo made using cases that accept a blank .22 rf that acts like a primer for the assembled round.  At one time, Dixie Gun Works in Tennessee was making some of that type of brass.  On the other hand, if I were around a talented  machinist as you seem to be, I would look into having a replacement breech block made with a centerfire pin, then make some brass to fit the chamber and shoot the rifle otherwise unaltered...I would hate to make an irreversible alteration to something that had made it 140+ years unchanged.

Again, congratulations on an interesting find and keep us posted with your progress.

Regards,
Froggie

Might be a Dwight Chapin, Ball and Williams, or a R. Ball, but not a Merrimack if it was brought to NZ in 1866-67 time, as Merrimack didn't start until 1867 as a Ballard maker.
I don't know whether to be concerned or excited about the Spencer caliber? I have never heard of, or seen a Ballard chambered for that caliber, and it's either rebored, very rare, or not that caliber. There was a .54 Ballrd cartridge, which was really a .52 Sharps & Hankins. The vast majority of these era Ballards were .46, .44, or .38 rimfires. 
John Dutcher tells of one that was used by Winchester Repeating Arms Co. that was marked ".56-56", (.56-56 Spencer) but was only made for testing their ammo, and never left the factory.
Look forward to hearing what maker is on your gun's barrel. I would strongly agree with Charlie on NOT modifying this gun's originality with restoration or permanent changes. It's seen far too much history to destroy it now with a complete restoration!

I've been a little quiet in this thread since posting it. 

Firstly I Have been reading all you have said.

Secondly I have been trying hard to find out all I could about this firearm and its make.

Thirdly there was a possibility that I may not have gotten it. A dealer announced his intention to purchase it at any cost.


Today I learnt that Bob (the current owner) has been in Aussie on holiday. The person that introduced me to him went to see him yesterday and informed him of all that I have been trying to do to find the history of this rifle. Bob was impressed and announced that the rifle was going to me. He has offered me a fair price with all the time I need to get it together. US$600. I am picking the carbine up on the 31st of this month on my way to a CAS competition. There it wiil take pride of place on my guncart for all to see. Bob has told the dealer that I get the rifle because he feels sure that it will get all the care, love and appreciation it deserves. Passion pays.

Still not too sure of the caliber. all Bob has said is that it is in 56 and he confirmed it is a Williams and Ball. Apparently about 20 years ago Bobs son was in nthe NZ  Army and he took it to camp. There an armourer gave it a complete strip down clean and oil. Cleaned it all up internally, including the barrel. It was then returned to Bob's gunroom where it has remained ever since just gathering dust. 

Everything is intact and functioning but hasnt been fired for a very long time as they had no ammo. Knowing NZ shooters, if they had ammo they woould be shooting it to this day.

I found out the name of the American soldier who brought the carbine to NZ. It is Roderick. I've been in contact with a historian who has the muster list for Company K, 12th Ohio Vol Cav and hopefully with luck his name will appear on that. I know there are many ways in a war that one obtains firearms so it will be a bonus if it can be provenanced to one person in a unit.

I have an engineer friend standing by. When I get the carbine I am going to strip it. Measure it and input the data into a CAD program. From that I am going to produce a CNC program. I have another friend who runs an engineering firm with heavy industrial CNC milling machines and he is going to turn out the parts for me including the receiver. Just for the fun of it and the cost of the material.

I am then going to build a replica of this carbine in a caliber that I can more readily make ammo for. The original will then be reassembled, cleaned up and take pride of place on the wall of my gun room. Ever since I was a young boy I have wanted an original firearm from the American Civil War. Now at nearly 50 years of age I am going to finally achieve this dream.

As to caliber for the replica I have been pondering this. I will keep the original style to the carbine so it looks like I will  not be going for one of the bigger calibers. At the moment I am swaying between 56-50 and 38 Extra long. The latter because I can get .357 MAX cases here at NZ$35 per 100 and the case is from all I can see in "Cartridges of the World" identical, I will use BP and I will use a hell loaded projectile of .38 caliber. The former because it is close to the original caliber and I can import cases from the US. Call me mad, call me stupid but this has really piqued my interest and I want to at least try.

Dai

PS

As soon as I get home from the shoot I will take a series of photos and post them up to this board. S watch this space in about 3 weeks time.

Good on ya, Dai!!  I'm gratified that not only is the rifle going to someone who will appreciate and cherish it, but that you are getting to fulfil one of your childhood wishes as well.  It's not often that we get to do that.   

I meant to mention that one of our US organizations that is active in the preservation and shooting of these weapons is the North-South Skirmish Association who have a website at

     (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

They have a couple of bulletin board and forum type features where they lurk like we do and would be delighted (I am confident!) to discuss this significant find with you.  This would include looking for info about the rifle itself and its firing, as well as info about the original owner of the same, especially since you have such a good starting point already.

Again, my hearty congratulations for both your luck and perserverance on this quest and please continue to keep us posted as it continues to unfold.

Regards,
Charlie Shaeff
the Green Frog

Was informed last night that the carbine is not 56-50 but 56-52.

Dai

Glad to hear ya got it! And a little envious, always room for one more old war horse, even if the wife differs!
I am a member of the above mentioned N-SSA. Adjutant, 1st Valley Rangers, Co. E to be exact. A few guys shoot the old Ballards up there. You are very lucky to have a friend who will build you a duplicate! And I completely understand the desire to make a 38 extra long. I did it. I just had to see what it was like. I used a New England firearms 20 gauge and sleeved it with a TJ 38-55 liner and reamed it with a 357 max reamer. I have both a heeled and hollowbase mould. The heeled actually has worked a little beter for me, but the bullet is light. I have considered making another barrel for my maynard in 38 xlong. However, this time I would use a standard 357 dia liner, easier to get the bullets for in a wider variety. I guess at that point it's not really a 38 xlong, its more of a 35-30?
I like shooting the 38 xlong. It is comfortable but lets you know it's there, and it is very nostolgic! 
A note about the American Civil War. Some of us refer to it as the War of Northern Aggression, especially those of use from Virginia. But just in fun. It was a serious conflict.
Enjoy that gun. I don't know if I have records for the OH regiment you mentioned, but I will check. I have a copy of the official records from the Archives. I have discovered "official" does not mean "complete".
Merwin Bray

Gentlemen,
Please note. Your war finished back in 1864, surely it's time to get over it.

On the other hand, my family still haven't forgiven the Normans for invading us in 1066.  

Dai, Where are the pictures? I for one am looking forward to seeing them. Congratulations on a great find.

Harry.

Get over it?  GET OVER IT?  Save your Dixie cups boys, the South's gonna rise again!
We're just pausing to reload.        

If we didn't make fun of Yankees, we'd have to spend all our time making fun of repeating rifles and jacketed bullets, and some of us use those to hunt, doncha know!  Besides, a whole bunch of my Northern brethren are just Confederate wannabes.  See how many New Yorkers are in Texas units, etc.

With malice toward none but tweaking them all,
the Green (except for my Stars and Bars) Frog   

Sorry I have been out of touch for a while. New job and lost all details for this site. Couple of motorbike accidents leaving me slightly injured.

WHen I did find this site again I had trouble logging on as I had forgotten my password.

The continuing story.

As i sit here the Ballard carbine is on my desk beside me.

I am getting a digital camera this week and will post photos.

Markings.

Left hand side is stamped with the number 1288

Butt plate has a very faint marking which I think reads MM

The left side of the block has the number 15 stamped on it.

Upon taking off the fore end wood I discovered that the nmber 15 is also stamped there on the underside of the barrel. In the grove for the extractor in the barrel under the fore wood it is also stamped 1287

The fore wood is stamped 15

The extractor is stamped 15

There are markings above the serial number on the receiver but very faint. I'll have a good look with a large magnifying glass this week.

There seems to be markings on the right hand side of the receiver but again very very faint.

Condition.

For its age it is not bad. Action is crisp and the trigger has a very crisp let off. Hammer has two stages to the cocking action

At some time the pivot pin for the falling block has been replaced.

the sling mount at the butt is missing but the fore end swivil is there.

There is no pitting on the exterior of the barrel and it has gone a dark greyish patina all over.

The receiver has dings and scratches but again gone to a dark grey colour.

The manual extractor is like nothing I have seen in the books. WHere other carbines I hace seen on the net have a round peg to activate the extractor this has a flat lever.

The woodwork is in good condition with no cracks though the fore end has a few very old gouges in it.

The screw on the lower tang has been replaced at some time as has the butt plate screw.

ANY ONE GOT ANY SPARE PERIOD SCREWS? OR A PIVOT PIN?

The bore has some dark spots along it but the grooves are visible all the way to the end of the barrel.

I have soaked the bore with Balistol and given it a scrub out wit a 20 guage phosphor bronze brush and it is cleaning up nicely.

It is in 56-56. Though to be sure I am going to slug the barrel this week with a piece of soft lead.

It has the original sights on the fire arm, a blade front sight that looks as though it is possible to drift for sighting in.

The rear sight is fixed but also looks like it can be drifted in a dovetail. It has two blades one quite low and it flips down to bring up a higher rear sight.

As said before the action is very smooth and easy to operate.

I will try and get some picture up this week if I can.

Chris

marlinguy wrote on Nov 12^th, 2006 at 5:15pm:


I see what you mean about the two digit numbers but there is a little anomoly in that the barrel is stamped 15 under the fore wood and right beside it in the channel for the extractor it is stamped 1287

To my mind it looks like (correct me if I'm wrong) that when assembling this carbine they got all the part number 15 bits together and completed the carbine on receiver number 1288

I am so very tempted to fire this fine old firearm. RIMFIRE though. Going to get some brass stock lathed to cases for it and mill an offset hole in the base for a 6mm blank. I know Dixie make these but at $27US for 6 they are a little expensive.

Looking for some bits if you know where I may get them.

Action pivot bolt. lower tang screw, buttplate screw. Also a rear sling swivel (missing) 

Chris