ASSRA Forum - My Martini's

dondford Ex Member	My Martini's Jul 23^rd, 2006 at 8:38pm	Print Post
	Top - 20 Raven (Rimmed blown Var Tarq) Middle - 17 Ackley Bee Bottom - 218 Bee


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dondford Ex Member	Re: My Martini's Reply #1 - Jul 23^rd, 2006 at 8:43pm	Print Post
	My 35/30-30 Martini Cadet Tang Sight Quick Detachable Scope Mounts Octagon Barrel Light and quick handling; I love this little rifle! Don


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COLONEL Ex Member	Re: My Martini's Reply #2 - Jul 23^rd, 2006 at 8:46pm	Print Post
	I LOVE MARTINIS. I'M ALSO A LITTLE CRAZY WITH MANY PERSONALIY QUIRKS. REGARDS,BEN.


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martininut Ex Member	Re: My Martini's Reply #3 - Jul 23^rd, 2006 at 11:35pm	Print Post
	Yes, I too love Martinis and have some serious personality qirks! Top: BSA Model 8 .22LR on top and BSA Mod 12 in 17MACH2 Bottom Middle: BSA Cadet 357 Mag on top and BSA 12 Target .22lr Bottom Bottom: 1874 Mk2 in .303 Enfield on top and WW Greener conversion of a Cavalry Carbine to .22LR (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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Brozbows Junior Member Offline Posts: 84 Location: Manitoba Joined: Jun 6^th, 2006	Re: My Martini's Reply #4 - Jul 24^th, 2006 at 1:24am	Print Post
	Very nice indeed! Just what I need to boot my butt and start working on my Cadet. Got the wood cut out and the buttstock fitted but not carved yet. Gotta re-line the barrel too. Just too many dang other projects keep pushing this one aside Thanks for the motivation! Regards, Darryl


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COLONEL Ex Member	Re: My Martini's Reply #5 - Jul 24^th, 2006 at 8:47am	Print Post
	MARTINI


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DoubleD Oldtimer Offline Posts: 635 Location: Cut Bank Joined: Feb 14^th, 2006	Re: My Martini's Reply #6 - Jul 24^th, 2006 at 11:52am	Print Post
	Dondford, Beautiful stock work! The thin little cadet action makes it difficult to get a fore stock other than a splinter and have nice lines. You rifles show that it's possible to have a heavier fore stock and not look an old bridge timber was used. Beautiful!!!

	Douglas, Ret.
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dondford Ex Member	Re: My Martini's Reply #7 - Jul 24^th, 2006 at 11:01pm	Print Post
	Thanks; I get the rough shaped stock sets from Great American Gunstocks and do the fitting, sanding and finishing myself. We weld a drilled and tapped stud on the barrel for the fore-end hanger.


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DoubleD Oldtimer Offline Posts: 635 Location: Cut Bank Joined: Feb 14^th, 2006	Re: My Martini's Reply #8 - Jul 24^th, 2006 at 11:55pm	Print Post
	Nice work, like the fore stock escutucheon Here is another idea for you on the lever end. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

	Douglas, Ret.
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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1650 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: My Martini's Reply #9 - Jul 25^th, 2006 at 2:52pm	Print Post
	Gotta agree, I definitely like Dondford's stock styling - the man has good taste! Nothing overdone there, everything as it should be...


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Nero Oldtimer Offline Posts: 987 Location: NZ Joined: Jun 1^st, 2006	Re: My Martini's Reply #10 - Jul 28^th, 2006 at 11:05pm	Print Post
	I very much like the looks and idea behind your 35/30-30 but I think you are living dangerously and hope the sction holds together and agree with the Colonel that the 12/15 BSA action is the one to go for, having much thicker sidewalls as well as not being cast but machined. I am having a 7mm Walters built at the moment on a 12/15 and when its built will post a photo showing how the gunsmith has shaved off some of the thickness on the sides of the action and trigger guard to reduce weight as I find that for some reason or other, rifles seam much heavier the older I get and I want something that I can carry all day. Where did you and Doubled get your Tang sights from? Also I just knew there must be a reason why my old Dad said, when you load a rifle it must always be pointed in a safe direction as when I loaded my latest 222 BSA Martini after firing about a dozen rounds through it at the range to sight in the scope and I closed the breach the rifle fired because the firing pin fractured where the slot is cut in it. I had checked, cleaned and polished it and the gunsmith had checked it as well and nothing was obvious. I wonder if crack testing it would have shown anything up or was it just old age and it let go. anybody else had this happen. Regards, Nero.


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DoubleD Oldtimer Offline Posts: 635 Location: Cut Bank Joined: Feb 14^th, 2006	Re: My Martini's Reply #11 - Jul 28^th, 2006 at 11:18pm	Print Post
	7mm Walters or 7-30 Waters? Never know on this board, somebody is always coming up with some new special cartridge of there own. The Sight is a chopped and channelled Lyman tangs sight. It's okay for hunting but not much else. You can see the two parts in the pictures. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) I used the rifle for Hunting in Africa and when I got back the sight had come apart in the gun case.

	Douglas, Ret.
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COLONEL Ex Member	Re: My Martini's Reply #12 - Jul 29^th, 2006 at 5:53am	Print Post
	check out this cat,is that a martini?


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MI-shooter Moderator Offline Posts: 697 Location: SE Michigan Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: My Martini's Reply #13 - Jul 29^th, 2006 at 5:25pm	Print Post
	Nero To my knowledge, all of the BSA small frame martini's were all machined from bar stock and/or forgings. I do not see anything in them that would indicate castings were used for the frame or for that matter any of the other parts as well. I think Frank De Haas wrote of testing a cadet action to 50,000 or 60,000 PSI without failure. Certainly large quantities were rechamberet to 32 Win Special. I know of several in .32 Miller Short. The weak link I agree is the barrel shank diameter. Stange though, that you condemn the cadet action due to sidewall thickness but then turn around and say you used a 12/15 due to the thicker side walls but you had your 'smith thin the sidwalls due to weight. Seems quite contrary.


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Nero Oldtimer Offline Posts: 987 Location: NZ Joined: Jun 1^st, 2006	Re: My Martini's Reply #14 - Jul 29^th, 2006 at 7:02pm	Print Post
	Yes slip of the finger there it should of course have said Waters. To the best of my knowledge and I am not a gun smith or in any metal trade, the BSA frames are machined and Greener and Westley Richards that I have owned had cast frames and seemed to be a funny old metal when I have drilled a hole in the rear of the action so as to clean from the breach. My reply must have sounded odd when I said I am using a thick wall but shaving the sides off.In fact only a little is coming off to stop it looking too slab sided and nothing from the middle part only a little from the top and bottom of the sides. Bit of a job to explain in writing, more of a cosmetic job than anything else. Just taking advice in using a 12/15 action. When I lightened, polished and crack tested the con rod on my 350cc pre-war Velocette race bike I was advised to get it shot peened as well to relieve stress. Thats been ok for the last fifteen years and I was wondering if the same could apply to my broken firing pin that I had polished up. Regards, Nero.


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MI-shooter Moderator Offline Posts: 697 Location: SE Michigan Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: My Martini's Reply #15 - Jul 29^th, 2006 at 7:21pm	Print Post
	I'd be interested in seeing what the shaved action looks like. I'm always looking for new ideas. Shot peening in fact ADDS stress to parts. It just happens to be compressive stress to the surface. Metal parts rarely fail due to compression. Most failure modes are tensile failures. We do alot of shot peening to reed valves and springs to increase thier operating life in my profession. Automotive companies do like you did to add life to conn rods and other highly stressed parts for the same reason. I try not to dry fire my small frame martini's. They have very strong mainsprings and bottom out in the block. Doing this without a snap cap or dummy case in the chamber is something I try to avoid.


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Nero Oldtimer Offline Posts: 987 Location: NZ Joined: Jun 1^st, 2006	Re: My Martini's Reply #16 - Jul 29^th, 2006 at 9:54pm	Print Post
	Forgot to say thank you to Doubled, for taking the trouble to put the photo's of your tang sight here. I learnt the hard way that if you are on a two week hunt in the wilderness and your scope gets damaged its as well to have iron sights on your rifle. Whats the calibre and what did you shoot in Africa? Thanks also to M1 for also taking the trouble to write back. Will put up a photo as soon as I can.


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dondford Ex Member	Re: My Martini's Reply #17 - Jul 30^th, 2006 at 12:51am	Print Post
	No, I don’t pride myself in living dangerously. I talked to several ‘smiths with Martini experience and read everything I could find and found noting that would indicate the Cadet action would not handle the pressures of the 35/30-30. As always with a new rifle, Cadet or otherwise, I worked up the loads carefully. Can you reference some specific data to support your position that a 35/30-30 loaded to normal pressures on a Cadet action is unsafe? Also, I have never seen a Cadet that was cast. Where did you get that information? The Tang Sight is a Mables Don


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DoubleD Oldtimer Offline Posts: 635 Location: Cut Bank Joined: Feb 14^th, 2006	Re: My Martini's Reply #18 - Jul 30^th, 2006 at 3:37am	Print Post
	I used my small Martini in 218 Mashburn Bee for Springbok and Steenbok. I used the 577/450 ZAR Martini for Kudu.

	Douglas, Ret.
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J.D.Steele Ex Member	Re: My Martini's Reply #19 - Jul 30^th, 2006 at 8:57am	Print Post
	My friend George The Knifemaker has Cadets chambered in, among other calibers, 357 Herrett (a 35x30-30 Improved), 30 Herrett (a 30-30 Improved, shortened), 25-35 Ackley Improved and 44 Magnum. The only problems he has had are with sticky extraction when the loads approach maximum. This is a function of the Cadet's lack of any extraction leverage advantage and not an indication of action weakness or stretching. The action itself is certainly not weak, but the small barrel thread shank OD does limit the size of any cartridge, and the weak extraction can be a problem. I have two Cadets, one in 256 Win Mag and the other is in the process of becoming a 225 Win. I see no problems as long as the loads are below 50K psi but I'm prepared to limit them even further depending upon the extraction difficulty. Good luck, Joe


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dondford Ex Member	Doubled, please share Reply #20 - Jul 30^th, 2006 at 10:44am	Print Post
	your 218 Bee Springbok/Steenbox loads. I have long wanted to work up a load for Whitetail doe and small yearling deer. I have Nosler Partiition and Barnes X bullets I was thinking of using. What bullet do you use. Thanks, Don


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dondford Ex Member	J.D. Steele Reply #21 - Jul 30^th, 2006 at 11:14am	Print Post
	thank you for your post. De Haas advises the 44 Mag should be the upper limit for the Cadet in terms of case size. I have only seen one Cadet on that case. Ask your friend to post pics of his Cadets, I would love to see them. I too have found the extraction is the only downside of the Cadet action in building the higher pressure (higher than the .310) rounds. I've found it helps to polish the chamber. The 35/30-30 has the best extraction of any of my Cadets; probably due to it being close to a straight case. I don't think the 35 Herrett is considered an Improved 35/30-30; the 357 Herrett is, like the 30 Herrett, built on a shortened 30-30 case (1.765") and I believe it is usually loaded at higher pressures than the 35/30-30, probably because it was developed for the Contender. How does the 256 perform? I have often thought it was a natural for the Cadet action. Good luck on the 225 Winchester build; keep us advised how it performs. Don


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DoubleD

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Re: My Martini's
Reply #22 - Jul 30^th, 2006 at 11:28am

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I certainly would never use the .218 Mashburn Bee on Whitetail. The round was awesome on Steenbok, a 20 to 30 lb animal. On the 50 to 100 lb Springbok it did a very poor job even with good shot placement, and I would never use it again on that animal or any animal of similar size. The Springbok was a one shot kill but took a long time to die with a lung and artery connecting to the heart hit. The little bullet just didn't let the animal bleed fast enough. The animal went almost 1/2 a mile before it went down. I am glad it was open country and we could watch it and the herd run off.

If it had been in our timber country we would have never found it. There was not one drop of blood on the outside of the animal.

The Mashburn Bee is a small game round and nothing more.

I tried Nosler and Barnes but they would not shoot in my gun. Ended up using Hornday 45 gr. Hornet bullet. I think the barrel on my gun was made from .22 LR barrel.


Cartridge	Case	Bullet	Maker	Primer	Powder	Weight	Gun	Notes
.218 Mashburn Bee	WW SuperX	45gr	Hornady	Win Small rifle	296	Rotor 12 (RCBS)	Martini Cadet	Three shot group in inch square.

Douglas, Ret.

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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1650 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: My Martini's Reply #23 - Jul 31^st, 2006 at 4:51am	Print Post
	FWIW, I have a cadet-size action chambered for 38-40, and the chamber walls do look uncomfortably thin indeed.... I even see some rim above the breechblock. I limit that rifle to target loads, and do not try to 'hotrod' it.


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