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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Is this a dumb idea? (Read 10144 times)
dondford
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Is this a dumb idea?
Jul 22nd, 2006 at 9:11pm
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I am thinking about building a single shot rifle on either a Martini Cadet or Low Wall chambered in 357 Maximum.  My idea is that I could shoot 38 spl or 357 Mag or 360 DW or 357 Maximum in it.  That would give me the range of shooting light 125 gr plinking loads in the 38 spl on up to 200 gr deer load in the Maximum and everything in between.
The question in my mind would the long bullet jump of the 38 spl in the Maximum chamber be a problem and would there be other downsides as well.
What do your guys think?

Thanks
Don
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #1 - Jul 22nd, 2006 at 9:20pm
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why not just use light 38sp bullets and loads in the long cases rather than messing with a bunch of different case sizes.
  

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screwloose
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #2 - Jul 22nd, 2006 at 10:14pm
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Don
I had a similiar idea when the 350 Rem. Mag came out. I have shot most pistol bullet weights and shapes through this rifle for about 20 years and they all worked well even the wad cutters. I load down with 2400 powder and up with 3031. Seat the bullets as close to rifling as I can get them. the rifling 1in 16 works fine. you are just thinking on a smaller scale. You might even want to consider blk. powder. almost a scaled down 45/70. I have this on my list of things to do someday.
Tom
  
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DoubleD
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #3 - Jul 23rd, 2006 at 3:12am
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The Cadet cannot always be made to feed the Maximum, it's to long to turn the corner.  The rim binds in the feed tray and the bullet binds in the chamber. This is not true in all Cadets, some will feed some will not.

There are those who modify the feed tray  to allow the cartridge to feed. The feed tray can be widened in the Cadet but should never be deepened.  Deepening can weaken the breech block.  The Breech block is also your "locking lug".

You can also adjust the notch between the horns of the lever so the block drops a little further, but this only gives marginal additional clearance.

Best thing to do is make a dummy cartridge and see if it will feed in the chamber without modification.  If it fits, all well and good.  If it doesn't look for a different action.  

The other problem I have seen noted with one .357 Maximum  Cadet was bulged chamber. The tenon on the cadet is very small and full power loads might bulge the chamber.  I was assured the rifle had only fired factory ammo...convinced I was not.

 
  

Douglas, Ret.
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J.D.Steele
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #4 - Jul 23rd, 2006 at 9:24am
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In order to allow the 357 Maximum case to 'turn the corner' into a Cadet's chamber, you may find it helpful to grind and polish an upside-down feed ramp in the rear of the chamber. This is also helpful with larger straight cases in large Martinis.

Just imagine the feed ramp in most any semiautomatc pistol. It's sloped and smoothly polished, and doesn't extend into the chamber more than about 0.150"-0.180" or so. IOW it doesn't extend beyond the solid portion of the case web. But it allows the cartridge to approach the chamber at an angle while encouraging it to finally turn the corner and feed straight in.

Now simply duplicate this contour on the inside/underside/topside of the rifle's chamber at the rear. This will allow the cartridge to slide further into the chamber on a slant before having to straighten out, and may well be enough to allow easy feeding for you.
HTH, good luck, Joe
  
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dondford
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #5 - Jul 23rd, 2006 at 12:35pm
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I have a BSA Cadet I built in 35/30-30; I have to turn the rims a little so it will feed.  The 30-30 case is 2.039 and the Maximum is 1.605.  The Cadet action I plan to use on this rifle (unless I go with the low wall) is a Greener but it should be the same action.  I considered grinding the block on the BSA but was afraid it woukld weaken the action, and turning the rims fixed the problem.  I have shot 250 gr bullets in that rifle, but those loads seemed to lossened the action so I mostly shoot 158 gr lead bullets now and 180 gr jacketed bullet for deer.
Is there a way to post pictures on this forum?
Don
  
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screwloose
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #6 - Jul 23rd, 2006 at 6:33pm
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Don
Why arn't you shooting the light bullets in the 35 30/30? 
Tom
  
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dondford
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #7 - Jul 23rd, 2006 at 8:31pm
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I loaded up some 125 gr lead bullets behind 12 grs of Unique the other week to plink at turtles at our hunting club pond the other week; they were a fun load.  It just occured to me that I am shooting all the bullet weight now in the 35/30-30 that I was thinking about in the 35 Maximum.  I guess what appealed to me was the concept of being able top shoot the 4 case sizes in the Maximum rifle.
I am also thinking about a 20 cal wildcat based on the maxium case.  I also have a Martini in what I call the 20 Raven, which is a rimmed, blown out 20 Var Tarq that is based on the 360 DW (1.40".  I'm getting a little over 3800 fps with a 32 gr bullet.  It is capable of more speed but the cases won't eject if I push it.  The Maximum (1.605")based 20 cal would be a "Super Raven".   
I am a Martini nut and have Cadets in 17 AB, 218 Bee, 20 Raven and 35/30-30.  The only downside I have found is the weak ejection.

Somebody advise how to post pics and I will post pics of my Martini's.

Don
  
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COLONEL
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #8 - Jul 23rd, 2006 at 8:33pm
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DON. GO WITH A 12/15 BSA .MORE METAL,BUSH PIN ,LOWER BLOCK  TO CENTER FIRE AN POOF JUST LIKE A FRENCH BB GUN. I JUST HAPPEN TO HAVE A LARGE ACTION FOR SALE.
  
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dondford
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Colonel
Reply #9 - Jul 24th, 2006 at 9:50am
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what do you want for your action?  What is the advantage in going with the 12/15 over the Cadet action.  I bush my firing pins, but as you know, the Cadet is already CF , so no more work is needed on the block.
You mentioned your action is a large action, which model and caliber?

Don
  
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40-65tom
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #10 - Jul 24th, 2006 at 10:12am
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Don't want to sidetrack this thread, but I have tried several times to post pictures but it tells me the file is too large. Any help appreciated. Sorry for the off topic post.

Tom
  
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COLONEL
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #11 - Jul 24th, 2006 at 1:46pm
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i don't know what action. it is a big mother that has been engraved and blessed by local witch doctor $300. 12/15s are thicker easy to stock and convert to cf
  
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rwjshooter
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #12 - Jul 30th, 2006 at 11:29am
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HI Dondford
I think your idea of differnt case length may not be the best idea, I have a .357 max NEF and the .38 spec. with the long jump didn't work well for me. I hav'nt had much of a chanch to play with this one latelyas other toys need playing with, also the firing of a long case after short ones will probably require a good chamber cleaning. lately I have been shooting black in the .357 max case and it seems like a lot of fun with out too many problems
Have a Nice Day
Ray
  
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MtnGun
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #13 - Jul 30th, 2006 at 2:58pm
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Wouldn't the .357max. be a little much for a Low Wall?
  
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COLONEL
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #14 - Jul 30th, 2006 at 3:06pm
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just gota martini 12/15 in 221fireball . no sticky at all psi prob above 45000 same head as 357. seems the 357 would have more grab on chamber wall as is longer. LOW WALL i don't know,prob not. regards ben.
  
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DonH
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #15 - Jul 31st, 2006 at 5:38am
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Something to keep in mind here is that (if memory serves me correctly) the .357 Rem Maximum operates at about 50,000 CUP in its factory form. This is what caused the problems which lead to the discontinuance of revolvers chambered for it (excepting the Dan Wessons). Not an issue for lead bullet shooting but for max loads it is a hot number and could make a difference which action one would use for it.
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Is this a dumb idea?
Reply #16 - Jul 31st, 2006 at 1:10pm
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Not really a problem for the cadet action, except for the possible extraction issues - but the action will hold most rounds that don't leave the chamber walls too thin.  The extractor actua&lly isn't bad, but whan you take a bolt action as a reference, it won't be up to that standard...
  
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