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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Shipping firearms – advice & a FedEx sales pitch (Read 15448 times)
QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Shipping firearms – advice & a FedEx sales pit
Reply #15 - Jul 18th, 2006 at 4:17pm
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I don't ship whole guns but I have shipped and recieved a lot of antique traditional archery stuff.  I ONLY use the postal system.  I have shipped gun parts with no problem---I've only been asked once about contents when insuring and I just told'em "machined parts" and no  more questions.
The number of snafus and hassles with FedUPs would be a regular book of  Lamentations.  undelivered and returned to sender packages, packages sent to a previous address--that was 2 years old.  Packages left in plain view on the unsheltered front steps in rainy weather, etc etc etc. I will NOT do business with them if at all possible.  Mailordering ammo & powder may present a problem---I may have to have it FedUPped to a local business for me to pick it up later.
I work on the road roughly 3 weeks a month,  the Post office holds my mail and packages with no questions, will either deliver it all on the day I get home or hold anything that requires a signiture.  Now a retired backroom sorter may not know jack about actual shippig regs and procedures but I work through 3 different post offices and all of the counter people are knowledgable and helpful.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Shipping firearms – advice & a FedEx sales pit
Reply #16 - Jul 18th, 2006 at 6:41pm
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Quote:
Wow... so much excellent information - thanks, guys!

I shipped an antique Martini single shot a few weeks ago. That was the first time I shipped a firearm, and it was a nightmare.  I had no box, my local gun shop did not either, so I went to the local “package and shipping” kind of shop for a box and advice on shipping..  A lady who works for this local store and recently retired from the Post Office, told me that  it was illegal to ship a firearm though the post office, even an antique rifle. The shop employees insisted the rifle be dismantled at first, and said it had to go though UPS, as the other carriers did not accept firearms. They also told me I could not insure it over $100. They packaged the rifle in such a way that it only fit in a very large box, and it cost me $89 to send it across the US by UPS ground. They said it would cost me $249 for UPS second day delivery.

I don’t think the shop employees are “anti-gun”. They were friendly and I believe they are just ignorant.  Amazing though that a lady who retired from USPS after at least 30 year working there had no clue.

From the link given on this forum, I printed the relevant text from the USPS site, just in case the post office staff knows no better, and now I will ship that way.

By the way- the Martini did make it on time and undamaged, but from what I read about UPS, it may be more by luck than anything else, especially as I had the name of the gun shop it went to right on the front of the package!

JLC in San Diego


Here's a tip JLC. The next time you ship a gun, go buy a cheap Doskosil hard case and when you get home take the case out of the cardboard box, split the seam on the cardboard, turn it inside out to get the brown side outside, then put the gun in the case, and wrap it back up in the cardboard! Tape it all up, address it, and away it goes!
  
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COLONEL
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Re: Shipping firearms – advice & a FedEx sales pit
Reply #17 - Jul 18th, 2006 at 9:04pm
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NEWTOWN VA just got 911 last year. i use priority mail in the next county for most stuff. if i send water pipe ups/fedx. Grin Grin ;
  
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Richardwv
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Re: Shipping firearms – advice & a FedEx sales pit
Reply #18 - Jul 19th, 2006 at 10:43am
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I've had it with both UPS and FEDEX, both of which have taken to throwing packages in the bushes and leaving without even knocking to see if I'm home, which these days is almost all the time.  The time crunch the companies put the drivers under forces this behavior.  While USPS can be a pain, they of course have to deal with a much wider range of services than other carriers.  However I don't have to go on easter egg hunts to find antique rifles and they take the time to actually knock on the door.....and most importantly, they get signatures when signatures are required.  If you have a problem with USPS one call to the local postal inspector seems to set it right in a hurry.  If you have a problem with UPS, that is what you have.....a problem and they couldn't care less.  Fedex is better, but still starts with the presumption that it is your fault.  In every case company policy and personnel make the difference.  The cut throat drive to efficiency at UPS and FEDEX puts the receiving customer last in line.
  
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texasmac
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Re: Shipping firearms – advice & a FedEx sales pit
Reply #19 - Jul 22nd, 2006 at 1:13am
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Well guys, it seems like I’m gonna hafta eat some of my words and lower my recommendation of FedEx a little.  Just shipped another Browning BPCR to a fellow in NY.  Used FedEx Ground and you guessed it, the stock was badly cracked at the wrist during transit.  So the score so far for me is 2 for 2 for UPS, 2 for 20 for FedEx, and 0 for 1 for USPS.  We’ll see how well the FedEx claim process works this time.

Wayne
  

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J.D.Steele
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Re: Shipping firearms – advice & a FedEx sales pit
Reply #20 - Jul 22nd, 2006 at 8:52am
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I usually try to separate the buttstock from the rest when mailing, even when it requires some extra work or packaging. Makes the package shorter and so therefore it's less likely to get bent or broken, also it no longer looks quite so much like a rifle. It works for me.
Good luck, Joe

PS when dealing with UPS, it might help to use a pickup point instead of the UPS store. My local pickup point is a hardware store and they've never given me any problem whatsoever. I've sent both modern and antique rifles, some to obvious gun places such as Green Mountain. I once asked if they wanted to inspect, and the guy looked at me as though I was crazy.

But I don't use UPS any more for rifles, only the USPS. Joe
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Shipping firearms – advice & a FedEx sales pit
Reply #21 - Jul 22nd, 2006 at 6:13pm
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And this from a older post at Greybeard's:

"URGENT WARNING RE: FEDEX

If you ship a gun via FedEx and have an insurance claim, you will be totally screwed. Period. FedEx has a “Catch 22” in its insurance claims adjustment policy that makes it impossible to collect on a firearms claim. 

Unlike UPS or USPS, FedEx will not do an on-site inspection of damage no matter how obvious it may be, but insists on taking the entire gun back to their offices for inspection even if you just have a cracked stock or bent scope. A couple of FedEx employees will show up at the recipient’s place, presumably an FFL, and ask for the gun to be turned over to them. This is the first of a series of federal felonies that are the direct result of FedEx company policy. 

According to three separate BATFE sources I discussed the matter with, FedEx is only licensed to transport guns to another legitimate party – they have no legal right to send some clerk who is not the legal buyer out to pick up a gun to bring back to the office for somebody to look at. It is a felony for a FedEx employee to even ask an FFL to do that. It would be a felony if the FFL were dumb enough to hand the gun over – he would lose his license and his business as surely as if he gave a gun to some guy who walked in off the street without submitting to a background check, etc. It is a felonious conspiracy for FedEx employees to pressure the FFL (which they often do) to give them the gun despite the law. The entire FedEx process is the result of some corporate lawyer’s complete ignorance of federal firearms laws and it has the potential to seriously criminalize everybody involved. 

As FedEx employee Donna Buchleitner of the Pittsburgh office explained rather tersely, my insurance claim was denied because the gun was not made available to them “as required by the FedEx Service Guide.” Never mind the fact that the gun was indeed not made available to them as required by federal law. Or, as a Miami FedEx employee snapped even more directly over the phone, “We are not concerned with the law, we follow company policy.”

The end result is that you will receive a form letter from FedEx stating that since they were unable to pick up the gun to inspect the damage your insurance claim is denied.

I wrote a well-documented letter concerning my own experience with this FedEx insurance scam to the FedEx employee supposedly in charge of such matters, a Mr. T. Michael Glenn, FedEx Corporation, 942 South Shady Grove Road, Memphis, TN 38120. As they might say in the newspaper business, “the accused was not available for comment, did not acknowledge our correspondence, and refused to return phone calls.”

BE WARNED. Do not use FedEx for shipping guns (or anything else for that matter, given their disreputable and dishonest treatment of gunowners). Any insurance claim you may have will be denied automatically and you will suffer the entire loss of your property. I guarantee it!"
  
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texasmac
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Re: Shipping firearms – advice & a FedEx sales pit
Reply #22 - Aug 17th, 2006 at 12:53pm
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Since I started this thread, and based on the feedback and comments, I used USPS Priority Registered mail for the 1st time to shipped a $2200 Winchester BPCR Creedmoor to a guy in Wyoming.  As noted here, or possibly on one of the other forums where I also started a similar thread, Registered Mail requires a special "wet & stick" reinforced tan tape over all the open box seams.  The tape was provided by the Postal Clerk, along with a wet sponge.

The biggest advantage: The USPS says "Items you send with Registered Mail are placed under tight security from the point of mailing to the point of delivery, and insured up to $25,000 against loss or damage. And you can verify the date and time of delivery and the delivery attempts online. "

Another advantage:  Priority Registered Mail with insurance is significantly cheaper than just Priority Mail with insurance.  Since Registered Mail means the item is under "tight security" the insurance fees are much less.  The total fee for Priority Registered Mail from Texas to Wyoming, with $2200 insurance and signature confirmation was $34 versus $46 for regular Priority mail with $2200 insurance.  FedEx would have charged $24, but I’ll gladly pay the additional $10 to insure undamaged delivery.

So thanks guys, for all your inputs.  I certainly learned something from this and similar threads and will only be shipping fully assembled “long guns” using the USPS.  No more FedEx and absolutely no UPS.  I still plan on using FedEx for items that present no stock damage such as when shipping rifles without a stock or with the stock packaged separately.

Wayne
  

NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member, Author & Publisher of the Browning BPCR book
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texasmac
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Re: Shipping firearms – advice & a FedEx sales pit
Reply #23 - Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:49pm
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Update on my recent FedEx rifle damage claim:

Although I now almost exclusively us the US Postal Service’s Registered Mail to ship rifles, a recent FedEx damage claim was still pending.  My prior and only previous experience with FedEx’s damage claim process was quite positive.  I was on the receiving end of a damaged Browning BPCR (stock was cracked during shipment).  The claim process was relatively quick and FedEx agreed they caused the damage.

In the most recent case I was the sender of a Browning BPCR, which was damaged by FedEx (stock also badly cracked) in transit.  After discussing the situation with the buyer, I initiated a claim and requested that FedEx pick up the rifle, inspect the damage, and ship it back to me.  I then sent the rifle to Browning for a written repair estimate.  After several weeks Browning responded with a repair estimate of over $500 to replace the stock.  After receiving the repair estimate I submitted, via certified mail, the required FedEx claim documents along with a cover letter and Browning’s estimate.  Three days after FedEx received the documents the claim was approved and check for the repairs and the original shipping amount is in the mail.  The whole process took 6 weeks, but for most of the time (over 4 weeks) I was waiting for an estimate from Browning.

Most of you have heard horror stories about UPS’ and FedEx’s failure to pay off on damage claims.  Concerning UPS, my two similar experiences have been very negative.  Their claim process sucks.  One was denied and the other was only paid after the dealer that sent the rifle threatened to stop using UPS.  FedEx has been a different story, at least concerning the claim process.  But my positive response from FedEx may be influenced by the fact that I have a small-business account with them and have shipped numerous firearms using FedEx.  An individual filing a claim with little or no history with FedEx may have a different experience.

By the way, as a side note, shortly after I was notified that the rifle was received damaged by the buyer’s dealer, I gave the buyer an option to keep the rifle and I would send him a refund for the cost of repairs and shipping to Browning, or have FedEx return the rifle to me and I would immediately refunded the full cost of the rifle plus shipping.  I was not surprised that he chose the latter.  In doing so I was prepared to eat the repair costs should FedEx decide not to pay off on the claim.  I believe this is only fair to the buyer, but does not seem to be a common practice in Internet gun selling & buying business.

Wayne
  

NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member, Author & Publisher of the Browning BPCR book
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texasmac
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Re: Shipping firearms – advice & a FedEx sales pit
Reply #24 - Sep 8th, 2006 at 1:05pm
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And another note, for the repair estimate, and thinking that Browning did not need the internal receiver parts to replace the stock, I shipped only the stripped receiver with barrel and forearm.  Browning sent back an estimate but refused to replace the stock until I sent them all the internal action parts.  It turns out that Browning’s repair procedure includes test firing all firearms for liability reasons after any repair, no matter how minor.  So, after priority mailing the action parts, I’m now patiently waiting for the repaired rifle, which will most likely be delayed due to the many firearms being sent in for repairs in preparation for the upcoming hunting season.

Wayne
  

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Brent
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Re: Shipping firearms – advice & a FedEx sales pitc
Reply #25 - Sep 8th, 2006 at 1:23pm
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Wayne,
You did the right thing with that Browning.  As a seller, you are obligated to deliver the product to the buyer's door.  Most internet sellers seem to think otherwise but that is not the case.  You are truly an exception to the rule.

FWIW, a friend and I had a Browning singleshot for sale and the forearm cracked possibly in transit - we are not sure.  We got a forearm from Browning w/o sending anything.  Perhaps different rules then (5-6 yrs ago), or different requirements for buttstocks.

Brent
  
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