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Shorty
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Ballard question
May 21st, 2006 at 8:04am
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I have purchased a Ballard rifle from an online dealer and hope to have it in hand late next week. The seller was not sure of the model, but I believe it to be a #2 sporting model. The rifle is set up for .32 rimfire, but my very limited understanding of these rifles leads me to believe that it is possible to reverse the firing pin in order to shoot centerfire cartridges. My questions are how do I tell if the rifle is convertable, and if it is, what version of the many .32 cartridges should I expect it to chamber? The photos of the breechblock show the firing pin housed in a square bushing with a retaining screw on the side of the hammer.
  

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singelshotman
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #1 - May 21st, 2006 at 1:31pm
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Yes, you can change over the firing pin, it's easy-simply remove top breechblock screw, pull out firing pin and turn it over-if it's original it will have two(2) prongs on, one on each side.Replace firing pin and shoot-if it''s not broken, in my experence it usually is broken.The rifle shoots the 32 long rimfire or 32 long centerfire. I think cases can be made from 32 H & R mag. However, you will need a special mould for a
heel bullet-it's just like a bigger .22 rimfire as far as the bullet is. I'm in the mould business so i'll shamessly say give me a e-mail at Cagunsmith@aol.com if interested-i can make it for you.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #2 - May 21st, 2006 at 2:46pm
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Shorty, to add to what was already said by singelshotman, the original Ballard iteration of the .32 centerfire cartridge can best be described as a .32 Colt ( NOT the slightly larger Colt NP or S&W) case with a case-diameter .32 bullet, installed via a reduced diameter heel at its base and using external lubrication (grooves with a waxy lube) also as seen currently on .22 rf cases only.  You can run a .32 S&W or .32 H&R Mag reamer in and make the chamber accept the more readily available brass, but then the expensive and hard to find original .32 rimfire cases won't work in it any more.  (And this is a problem because...?)  The firing pin can be made to work with cf by simply removing the retaining cross screw, pulling the firing pin out to the rear of the block, and reversing it before reinstalling the retaining screw.  No further disassembly should be necessary unless, as s-sman suggested, something is broken.

Your bore is quite likely to be less than pristine due to the toxic primer compounds used on those old .32 rf cartridges, so the following may be irrelevant, but the bore diameter of the old .32 rf can frequently run .316" or more, so commonly available .32 pistol diameter bullets (.311-.314") will probably be loose, another reason you might want a custom mould made.  You might look at a hollow base mould at that so the skirt can expand and give a good gas seal.

The final solution, in my mind at least, is to have the barrel relined.  If you want to stay with the .32 pistol class rounds (the heaviest thing I would consider for that #2 action) you can get a proper bore diameter at the same time as a good bore and the chamber of your choice.  Otherwise, a #2 makes a DANDY .22 rimfire rifle...that is what I am doing with mine.  Be sure and go back through the archives on this forum to see other discussions of this and similar projects.  There are a lot of things there I probably left out.

HTH, Froggie
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #3 - May 21st, 2006 at 7:00pm
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If your Ballard is a rectangular firing pin, which you should be able to see when you cock the hammer, then it's reversible. If you cock it, and see it's round, then it is not. Most, (but not all) #2's in .32 do have a reversible firing pin. Exceptions are usually those #2 .32's in .32 Ballard Extra Long, or .32 Long with double set triggers. The DST option required Ballard to supply them with the centerfire block, so they could use existing DST blocks and trigger assemblies. Mine is one of these and not reversible.
When reversing the firing pin it is not changed end to end, but rather turned upside down, as both pins are on the front of the firing pin.
I have three Marlins in .32 Long, and cast bullets with an old Ideal loading tool that has the correct mold on the end of the tool. It seems to work well with mine, but I was lucky enough to find guns with good bores. As Froggy mentioned they can more often be pretty well used up! 
Should you decide to reline or rebore your #2 to another caliber, keep in mind the #2 is a cast iron action, and even some pistol calibers will strain it! Best to keep it in something mild.
  
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leadball
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #4 - May 21st, 2006 at 7:00pm
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frogster;
             My first Ballard was a 32 Long, 32 Colt will chamber and fire safely but will not shoot worth a hoot,  about three inch at 50 yd. Relining is a good idea--re-barreling might be less expensive. I re-barreled mine in 32/40 Ballard about 10 years ago. and another has been re-lined in 30/30 Wesson. I realize they are considered unsafe but the term "unsafe" is sort of a relative term--unsafe as compared to what. I probably won't do another Ballard because the shooter is limited to low pressure loads.  leadball
PS  the firing pin should be rounded somewhat because the indentation is large and square--if it is orginal
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #5 - May 21st, 2006 at 10:56pm
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I think one of the biggest issues on those cast actions is the safety factor,  As knowledgable owners and shooters we may know what they are, and we know enough to use safe low pressure loads no matter what the cartridge we chamber them for.  My mental reservation is "what happens when it passes to a 2nd or 3rd owner farther down the road who does not know the limitations and just loads up a more comtemporary higher pressure load in the gun"

I only mention this because at the NRA show we had several guys come up to us with an almost indentical question about ressurecting old cast ballard actions.
  

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Shorty
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #6 - May 22nd, 2006 at 8:11am
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Thanks for all of the feedback! 

I will wait until I have the rifle in hand before making any decisions. The bore was represented as being "very good" but who knows what that really means? If the bore is OK, I will probably leave it as it is, otherwise I will likely have the original barrel relined and chambered for .32 H&R Magnum, simply for the sake of convenience. The idea of making a .22 is also very appealing as I have a peculiar affection for 22s that can only be fulfilled by periodically adding another to the collection. It is a sickness....
  

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Re: Ballard question
Reply #7 - May 22nd, 2006 at 10:20am
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The .22 rf solution is always a good one, especially if you "need" just one more!  Roll Eyes

You may be surprised at how well the barrel does IF (and notice this is a big if) you can find the right bullet for it.  I can just about guarantee that if you do find the right bullet it will be short and fat...there is a little heel bullet that was showed to me by MI Shooter long ago (that he used in a Martini Cadet, I think) that would be worth pursuing IMHO.  Maybe we can get him to chime in.  Wink

Keep us aprised of your progress.  Those funny looking rifles with the long receivers are kinda interesting to play with. (Sorry about that, Marlinguy!  Cheesy)

Froggie
  
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MI-shooter
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #8 - May 22nd, 2006 at 8:33pm
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Hey Froggie...you called?? RCBS does make a heeled bullet for the .310 Cadet. OD measures .325, heel OD is 315, weight about 120grs. If either you or Shorty wants a couple to try before you buy a mould let me know and I'll mail out a couple.
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #9 - May 22nd, 2006 at 8:49pm
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I haven't found the .32 Colt Long or Short to be lacking in accuracy in my old Marlin Ballards. I've shot a lot of NOS .32 Colt ammo in mine and gotten groups at 50 yds of one ragged hole. At 100 they are a bit larger as the cartridge is a little anemic, and I can't shoot the old buckhorns well.
I also have over a dozen boxes of old Cannuck ammo in .32 Long rimfire that shoot like crazy! The .32 in the Ballard is a great round once you've gotten set up to reload with the right heeled bullet.
If you did decide to convert it to .22LR, you will have some issues with the extractor system. The Ballard #3 in .22 rimfire used a completely different extractor which worked on a rod, pushing the case straight back. The pivoting extractor of all other Ballard will drop slightly down as it moves back. This sometimes causes the extractor to slip past the rim, and then you have to fiddle in there to pull the case with your fingers.
Should you convert to .22 rimfire, you should also rework the extractor to lever contact area to limit the amount of travel, so it stops before traveling to far down and back.
  
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Shorty
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #10 - May 22nd, 2006 at 10:15pm
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This place is an incredible resource! I think if I can keep this rifle original, I will. Not that it is especially fine, but because I have several "project" rifles in the works and think it would be nice to have a rifle that doesn't need to be reworked. I have never reloaded anything more than my fork and a few breeches, but I am willing to learn and think it would add another level of enjoyment (aggravation?) to my shooting
  

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MerwinBray
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #11 - Jun 8th, 2006 at 8:25am
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Project rifle! What's that? No one on this board would know anything about projects.
If I remember right Rapine had a heeled 32 cal bullet mould. I know they had one in 38, I bought one for my home made 38 ballard extra long. (It was a curiosity thing.) I was lucky enough to find a very nice nickle plated old Ideal loading tool in 32 long with a hollow base mould on the end. I bought it almost exclusivly for the mould as I have some old 32 cal pistols that I want to shoot and some day maybe write a bit about and wanted the old authentic style mouldd to do it. And I have a stevens tip up in 32 extra long I have tought about shooting though the bore is horrid  Cryand I plan to reline it some day, but I don't have any projects!
If you watch ebay and gun shows you will eventually find some kind of mould. Every once and a while ebay will pop up the ideal loading tool for your gun, what ever caliber it ends up being. Just keep looking.
There is also a guy who sells lyman and ideal tools online called the 310 Shop. I have bought a couple things from him. If you want his email PM me and I will dig it up. He sends out a list about once a month.
About Rapine. I keep hearing that the owner who made the moulds is semi retired and not making any more moulds. Now, this is about 5th hand info so I do not know how accurate it is. But if true , he may only sell what is on hand. Merwin
« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2006 at 8:37am by MerwinBray »  

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