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Normal Topic Mapping out a rebuild/restoration of a Low Wall? (Read 5661 times)
Paul_F.
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Mapping out a rebuild/restoration of a Low Wall?
May 8th, 2006 at 7:44pm
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Just recently purchased a coil-spring Win Low Wall... 

I'm kicking around ideas, just in case I don't fall in love with shooting it in it's present condition. (and I just might).

It's been rebarreled, and restocked, with the tangs modified. 
It's not an unhandsome field rifle by any means, but I'm thinking about "what if I want to bring it closer to "factory" than it is now?".

It has, er, had... a single set trigger. It is missing the flat spring, adjustment screw, and sear (I think.. my deHaas drawing of the innards is off someplace..).
Where would I find parts, OR drawings for the parts? (I have machinery and I'm not afraid to use it...).

Who would be a good choice to have the action tangs replaced?  (I have machinery, and can machine, file, polish, and fit..  but I can't weld worth a crap...). How much would that part of the job cost? (Independant of any refinishing....I have my eye on Classic Arms for color casing..).

I'm interested in any opinions!  If this DOES turn into a project, it'll be a year or more before I actually start... I have more projects than time... or maybe that should be more projects than brains.. or something Cheesy

Paul F.
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: Mapping out a rebuild/restoration of a Low Wal
Reply #1 - May 8th, 2006 at 7:53pm
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Just a note....if you have the tangs welded, it may have an effect on the casehardening of the same? I saw one gun that had been nicely welded and didn't show at all, but the weld area cracked when cased.
Might want to go with rust blue after welding. It wont show, and strength wont be compromised. John Taylor at: john@johntaylormachine.com  can do the welding, if you go with the rebuild.
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Mapping out a rebuild/restoration of a Low Wal
Reply #2 - May 8th, 2006 at 8:04pm
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I think it depends on what material is used for filler when welding, as to whether it will case acceptably.. but definitely something I need to think about!

Note to self; find someone to do the tang repairs who knows case hardening AND can weld! Cheesy

Paul F.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Mapping out a rebuild/restoration of a Low Wal
Reply #3 - May 8th, 2006 at 10:12pm
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Paul, depending on what you want to do with it, you might get lucky and find a lower tang (original) that could be bought cheaper than a new one...if you are going to refinish it anyway.  Which low-wall coil spring action is this, the smooth side (no flares at front and back that some mistakenly call a thick side) or the larger flared type that was used for the 3rd Winder Musket?  If the latter, you can use any high-wall parts you like except for the breech block, if the former, you are limited to the smaller smooth side low-wall parts. If you want to buy the tang new, or any of the parts for the trigger assembly itself are probably still available from Ballard Rifle.  Also the casting kits for DST are (or were) available from whoever is handling the Rodney Storey castings.   Smiley

Is the top tang bent, shortened, or unaltered?  Since that is part of the receiver itself, you will be forced to make that right or somehow allow for it upon restocking.  I have had one high-wall with shortened tang built up and reshaped, but I have not tried to recase it yet and am thinking maybe it will be blued instead.  You are right about the filler material, but it seems to me that strange things happen anyway when welding has happened.  I still regard it as something of a black art rather than a science!  Roll Eyes

All for now, Paul but I hope this has been of some help.  Keep us posted on your progress, maybe it will encourage me at least to get some more done on MY projects!   Wink

Froggie
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Mapping out a rebuild/restoration of a Low Wal
Reply #4 - May 9th, 2006 at 11:17am
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I'm new at low walls... this is my first...
So thank you for clearly defining how to TELL "which action" I have Cheesy

I have the "early" smooth-side version. (Of COURSE I would have the one with the unique and probably expensive parts...).

The lower tang has been bent to a pistol grip but does not appear to be shortened (I don't have one to compare it to, but looking at pictures, if it's shortened it's only a small bit.).

The upper tang has been slightly bent, but has been shortened more.  Again, only have pictures to go by at the moment, but perhaps by an inch?.

Since I long ago came to the conclusion that I can't weld worth beans, I've READ about welding, and learned a lot of the metallurgy behind it....  It's not an art.. it's a science, but as with most "craft" sciences, the guys who excel at it sure do make it LOOK like art! 

I still need to take the rifle out and try it in it's present shape... I may just leave it as is (except I'd like to get the Single Set trigger back... it's got a nice un-set pull, but darn it, I LIKE single sets!).

Hmm.. I wonder if anyone has dimensional drawings for the single-set parts?  I have  a non-dimensioned drawing in DeHaas book(s)...

Thanks for the tips and feedback! 
Paul F.
  
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Brent
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Re: Mapping out a rebuild/restoration of a Low Wal
Reply #5 - May 9th, 2006 at 12:47pm
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Paul,
If the pistol grip fits - wear it.  Why change?  The top tang is only critical if you want a tang sight.  If you do, it is probably easier to find or make some sort of base to fit.   

As for the single set, I think they are voodoo myself.  Check with Joe Harz and buy some parts from Ballard Rifle company.   

You will not make a modified gun into an original, so you might as well make it into what works best for you.  At least, this was my approach and I can't be happier with my low wall.

Brent
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Mapping out a rebuild/restoration of a Low Wal
Reply #6 - May 9th, 2006 at 12:55pm
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Brent;
All true enough...

Not so much trying to make it 100% original, but I would like the lines of the stock a bit closer to the original...

But I'm quite a ways from actually doing anything with it...

I will get a hold of Ballard Rifles and see if they can fix me up with the trigger parts.

Thanks!
Paul F.
  
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ken_hurst
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Re: Mapping out a rebuild/restoration of a Low Wal
Reply #7 - May 9th, 2006 at 1:24pm
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Paul_F -----   for best results regarding welding & re-color case;

1)  have frame annealed by Classic Guns ($25.)
2)  have all welding/bending done now. By annealing first, you will get a better weld and the new color case will take better. Also, you will find it is much easier to hand polish. Stress to welder that he is to use only LOW CARBON steel wire !  By doing it this way, you won't have any tell tale areas where the weld has been done.
3)  hand polish all areas of action & lever to a 320 grit "wet or dry" finish and fit stocks.
4) after wet sanding stock to fill pores, begin final finish.
5)  finish polishing action & lever to min. 400 grit or 600 grit as I do & send to Classic for color case.

Good luck,   Ken
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Mapping out a rebuild/restoration of a Low Wal
Reply #8 - May 9th, 2006 at 1:43pm
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Ken_Hurst;

Exactly what I was looking for!

Many thanks!

I'm starting to get an idea of a process for this project..
1. Test as-is (because I wanna shoot it!)
2. Fix the single-set trigger.
3. Decide if I WANT to mess with anything else.
4. Survey the other innards for anything else that needs fixin'. (I haven't been in there yet except the trigger, but everything looks good so far!)
5. Fit barrel (?)
6. Have the reciever annealed.
7. Do whatever tang repair/reshaping/rebuilding I decide on.
8. Add wood. 
9. Fit & finsish wood and metal as Ken_Hurst advises.
10. Final decision between color case and some blueing. At this point, I can't imagine NOT having Classic Guns color case it... but I might change my mind.

11. Put it all together and shoot it for the next 40 years, and after they fit me for a pine box, leave it to one of my neices to shoot for the next 50 years!  Of course, that'll piss off my other neice... so I'll have to build ANOTHER one!  Grin 

Paul F.
  
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JDSteele
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Re: Mapping out a rebuild/restoration of a Low Wal
Reply #9 - May 11th, 2006 at 4:23pm
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Paul, IMO your SST should present very little problem & is worth pursuing. PM me for more, I'll be happy to help.

However, the fact that your upper tang has been shortened to such a great degree makes me think that it would be better to either use it as is or sell/trade it for an unaltered one. If you do decide to weld it, make sure to use very low-carbon steel, not only for the rod but also for any new section added to lengthen it. IOW if it's now an inch short, the usual procedure would be to weld a 1"-long piece of steel to the end, and shape it. In this case you'll have the added piece and the welding filler rod. both of which must be low-carbon to match the original. If either is high-carbon, then that portion will be too hard when cased and will crack. Also, high-carbon steel always requires a pre-heat and a post-weld heat treatment (PWHT)(basically a slow cool-down) to avoid over-hardening and cracking. Altogether it's a hassle.
Good luck & PM me, Joe
  
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