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Normal Topic Record keeping as a tool. (Read 6925 times)
MP
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Record keeping as a tool.
May 4th, 2006 at 12:26pm
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OK, I’ll try this one more time.  I followed the chronograph threads with interest so thought I would share what I think is an important tool in load development.  I now use a computer spread sheet to keep track of what I’ve done.  This rifle (.33 WP 1-6/10”) was built as a fixed ammunition rifle for offhand practice but I was not satisfied with the accuracy so now working with it breech seating the bullets.  


33      WP                                                                              

Date      Temp      Wind      Powder      Charge      Primer      Wad      Seat      Mould      Weight      Lube      Yards      Shots      Group      Notes
3/28/06      37      5      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      218.5      SPG      100      5      0.762      Control Group
3/28/06      37      5      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Darr      220.0      SPG      100      5      0.975      Hard to seat, 1-30
3/28/06      37      5      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Darr      220.0      SPG      100      5      0.892      Hard to seat, 1-30
3/28/06      37      5      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Darr      218.3      MP1      100      5      0.715      Hard to seat, 1-20
3/28/06      37      5      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Darr      218.3      MP1      100      5      1.1      Hard to seat, 1-20
3/28/06      37      5      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      218.5      SPG      100      10      1.12      9-.675"
4/5/06      37      5      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      217.9      MP1      100      5      0.543      
4/5/06      41      6-7      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      217.9      MP1      100      5      0.382      
4/5/06      41      6-7      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      218.6      MP1      100      5      0.885      
4/5/06      41      6-7      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Darr      220.0      MP1      100      5      0.847      
4/5/06      41      6-7      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Darr      220.0      SPG      100      5      0.934      Hard to seat
4/5/06      41      6-7      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Darr      218.3      SPG      100      2            Hard to seat
4/5/06      41      6-7      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      218.6      Alox      100      5      0.533      
4/5/06      41      6-7      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      218.6      SPG      100      5      1.108      Gust from the left
4/5/06      41      6-7      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      218.6      MP1      100      5      0.548      
4/26/06      46      3      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      217.8      MP1      200      5      1.712      Foulers (adj-scope)
4/26/06      46      3      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      217.8      MP1      200      5      1.492      Foulers
4/26/06      46      3      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      217.9      MP1      200      5      0.771      
4/26/06      46      3      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      218.6      MP1      200      5      1.69      30-1
4/26/06      46      3      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      218.6      SPG      200      5      1.691      30-1
4/26/06      46      3      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      218.6      Alox      200      5      1.462      30-1
4/26/06      46      3      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      218.5      SPG      200      5      1.169      Control Group
5/3/06      53      6      AA#9      11      Rem-6.5      No      1/16"      Pope      217.9      MP1      100      5      0.578      
5/3/06      53      6      AA#9      11      Rem-7.5      No      1/16"      Pope      217.9      MP1      100      5      0.459      
5/3/06      53      9-10      AA#9      11      Rem-7.5      No      1/16"      Pope      217.9      MP1      100      5      0.61      
5/3/06      53      9-10      AA#9      11      Rem-7.5      No      1/16"      Pope      217.9      MP1      100      5      0.768      
5/3/06      53      9-10      AA#9      11      Rem-7.5      No      1/16"      Pope      217.9      MP1      100      5      0.767      

  
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PETE
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Re: Record keeping as a tool.
Reply #1 - May 4th, 2006 at 2:57pm
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Mike,

  Interesting data you have there.

  One thing I notice is the temp. you're shooting in. This could be a cause of your not getting the accuracy you're wanting or expecting. From my experience the colder it is the more problems you have with good ignition with small charges of powder. I attribute this to the powder not being able to sustain a consistent temp. for an even burn. I've found if the charge is small enuf bloopers, hangfires and even misfires result.

  I've done a little shooting at temp.'s down to about 30 deg.'s F. but around here it's generally considered that accuracy starts going down hill when the temp. goes below 60 deg.'s F.

PETE
  
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tar baby
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Re: Record keeping as a tool.
Reply #2 - May 4th, 2006 at 4:34pm
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Grin Grin Grin
  
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MP
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Re: Record keeping as a tool.
Reply #3 - May 4th, 2006 at 7:38pm
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Pete,

I sort of anticipated the shooting season, normally I don’t shoot below about 50.  I never had any powder problems at these temps, more lube problems and dropping the primers because my fingers are freezing  Wink.  As you can see by the chart wind is not my friend, that’s why I try to do testing on calm days. 

MP
  
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AndyZ
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Re: Record keeping as a tool.
Reply #4 - May 4th, 2006 at 7:59pm
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     Mr  P:         I, personally,  see nothing, wrong with the accuracy you are getting.  Especially where your shooting!!   Would you please define the cartridge a little more fully?  Is it like the Miller long?
     Most people who shoot the Miller short use a wad.  Have you tried one?
     Lastly, please stay in Alaska:  i for one do not need any more competition.
                                                                    andyZ     (in  Ct )
  
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MP
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Re: Record keeping as a tool.
Reply #5 - May 4th, 2006 at 9:52pm
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Andy,

I’m not having any trouble with this rifle or the load development for it.  I was just posting  how I feel good record keeping tells me a lot and for me it’s a good tool in the search for the “One-Holer’s”. I’ll experiment until I can get around .7 MOA day-in day-out then I’ll work on something else. 

My friend John Wills and I designed the cartridge, somehow 33 PW did not sound right so we settled on .33 WP.  It’s nothing special, a 357 Maximum 1.6” long necked to .33 caliber.  I’m using a Ron Smith gain-twist .338 chrome-moly barrel.  Shooting fixed ammo I could do little better than MOA so now I’m trying breech-seating, new bullets and all that goes with it.

I use wads when I’m using an action that it’s hard to put the loaded case in without upsetting or spilling the powder.  With this rifle (pictured at the left) it’s a Ballard so the case slips right in. I use a wad when I’m using large grain powder like 4759 that will deform the bullet base.  Over the years I have shot schuetzen rifles with wads on the powder, off the powder and in the case mouth but always try to do it without a wad, for me this is always more consistent.  What works for me may not for others.  

I’ve had lots of request to stay in Alaska and a few to leave and none had anything to do with my shooting.  Shocked Regardless, I’m not a competitive person and rarely shoot in matches.  

MP
« Last Edit: May 4th, 2006 at 9:58pm by »  
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joeb33050
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Re: Record keeping as a tool.
Reply #6 - May 6th, 2006 at 9:03am
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I keep records in a book, and also in Excel spreadsheets-one for each gun.
The Excel spreadsheet allows me to sort by column = bullet or powder or primer or ???
I calculate on the spreadsheet the average and standard deviation of group sizes, # of groups per test, etc.
The book is good, but the spreadsheet is much better. But I can't take the spreadsheet to the range.
joe b.
  
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JDSteele
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Re: Record keeping as a tool.
Reply #7 - May 6th, 2006 at 9:30am
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Quote:
Andy,

I’ve had lots of request to stay in Alaska and a few to leave and none had anything to do with my shooting.  Shocked 
MP



Reminds me of the sign that once graced my office down at the nuclear plant:

"All visitors are greatly appreciated;
Some when they enter, others when they leave."

Record-keeping is excellent as a means of collating info. I too use an Excel spreadsheet for the bare-bones facts, but have also found that keeping all test targets is sometimes even better. For instance, group shape as well as group size is sometimes significant, as is group placement on the target.
Good luck, Joe
  
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AndyZ
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Re: Record keeping as a tool.
Reply #8 - May 8th, 2006 at 8:58pm
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       MP:        Thanks for the update on the case.     Actually  what i appreciated about your post was that it brought back memories of shooting in Alaska in the winter.  Not too bad as long as it was confined to the middle of the day and not too extended.
      I used to shoot on the "civilian"  range at Ft. Richardson and a fine range it was.  Where do you shoot there.          Best          andy
  
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MP
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Re: Record keeping as a tool.
Reply #9 - May 10th, 2006 at 1:48pm
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Andy, 
I try to keep my Schuetzen shooting above 50 if I can, just too cold  for all the bare hands work needed.   After I moved to town and lost my range I shoot at Birchwood, north of Eagle River, about a 40 minuet drive from the house.  The long-range BP matches (200-300-600yrds) are held on one of the Ft. Richardson ranges (Pindow sp?)   

MP
  
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