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Accuracy expectations for .22LR (Read 28613 times)

boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7728 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #30 - Jul 9^th, 2006 at 9:03am	Print Post
	It's not the general opinion but I think most rimfire testing is non productive. From what I have seen at the club level the samples are too small to draw any valid conclusions The major teams world wide pick a quality brand, often with some sponsorship agreement, then use it in all there rifles. Can you imagine the US Olympic team with dozens of .22's allowing the shooters to see what there rifles "like". The logistics of getting the individual selected ammo to a match would be impossable. How about the coaches dealing with dozens of athletes each trying to find something that makes up for shooting skill. If you like testing go at it. If you want to shoot well in matches pick a quality brand lay in a good supply and focus on positon and conditons. Boats


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Wapiti Full Member Offline Posts: 133 Location: Colorado Joined: Jun 6^th, 2006	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #31 - Jul 9^th, 2006 at 1:11pm	Print Post
	Boats, The next time you see your buddy Col. Wigger ask him how the US Team does it. I think you'll be surprised!!! 'Til then, Good shooting.


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7728 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #32 - Jul 9^th, 2006 at 3:13pm	Print Post
	I think Eley then Federal now Eley. Boats


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7728 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #33 - Jul 10^th, 2006 at 8:29am	Print Post
	Wapiti Responded on memory but over the weekend checked it out While the US Shooting team may test others what they shoot in every rifle is Tenex, they don't shoot anything else in matches. Since Eley is an offical sponsor it would not be acceptable for a team shooter to win a match with some other brand. It's about sponsorship, if some brand offers a lot of ammo for testing any top team will not refuse it. They certainly test others however once a brand is identified as acceptable the selection is about Money not individual rifles prefrence for one or another. The basic idea is find something that works and stick with it. The top brands are all likely candiates. You can sucessfully run a number of rifles on the same brand of Ammo. Thats what all the top teams do. Boats


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J.D.Steele Ex Member	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #34 - Jul 10^th, 2006 at 1:59pm	Print Post
	What Boats said. I've been testing 22s and ammo since the '60s, looking for the perfect squirrel & target rifles and ammo. To make a long story short it's Eley for me, now that Federal is out of the picture. Over the last 35 years, for me, Eley has been the most accurate. Federal WAS the most consistent & perhaps a little more accurate, but not by much. Out of about 40-50 rifles tested and many, many, untold brands and lots of different ammos, Eley Tenex has given me the best overall performance and has never performed poorly. What Boats said. JMOFWIW, good luck, Joe


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screwloose Ex Member	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #35 - Jul 20^th, 2006 at 1:13pm	Print Post
	The Cabela's 2006 fall catalogue on pg 6 lists 22 sniper subsonic 60 gr. any one have any experience with this stuff? Tom


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rimfire Ex Member	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #36 - Jul 20^th, 2006 at 3:53pm	Print Post
	I have shot it - both in a 1-16 twist barrel and a 1-9 twist barrel - my personal experience is I feel the quality colntrol is not there as at 200yds I had about 12 inches of vertical dispersion verses about 2 inches of horizontal. Granted I was not shooting over a crono but the wind that day was mainly from my right that day if I remember correctly. I shot a couple of boxes of it the day I tested it and it has been 2-3 years so maybe their QC has improved but I wouldn't bet on it. Lapua used to make some 48 grain stuff but I don't believe it is available anymore. Hope that this has been of some help - u have a good day now - rimfire


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38_Cal Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2255 Location: Montezuma, Iowa Joined: Apr 27^th, 2005	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #37 - Jul 20^th, 2006 at 10:11pm	Print Post
	Anyone have any experience with the SK Jagd rimfire ammo as sold by Champion Shooters Supply and Sportsmans Guide? Thanks! David Montezuma, IA

	David Kaiser Montezuma, IA
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Paul_F. Ex Member	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #38 - Jul 21^st, 2006 at 10:46am	Print Post
	SK Jagd is now owned by Lapua, and is the company that manufactures the "Match Target" and "Match Extra" ammo sold under the Wolf label. It is excellent stuff. More and more smallbore prone shooters are switching from ridiculously expensive Eley to the Wolf Match Extra, which is the same as SK Match (Or maybe Rifle Match). You can do a lot more shooting on $400 a case ammo than Eleys $1100 a case! Paul F.


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7728 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #39 - Jul 21^st, 2006 at 12:17pm	Print Post
	Paul. Agree with you cost is a factor today. Tell you the truith I don't shoot a lot of rimfire in competition anymore mostly shooting centerfire Schuetzen. In the past I shot about 100 20 shot SB Prone matches a year. When shooting a lot of Silouette as many as 50 40 shot matches. The match ammo does add up. The two rifles I am using now, Small bore Silouette and Schuetzen I use Federal 711B for pratice. At 50 yards the 711B is fine, I know it does not perform as well as it should at 100. But a match is a different thing, In addition to SB Silouette I shoot some rimfire gallery Schuetzen in the winter. Last one I attended cost me 300 bucks motel gas and meals. I fired 2 boxes of the best I could get, and old lot of Federal I have been hording. The cost of the match .22 ammo was nothing compared to cost of attending the match. When the Federal is gone will switch my rifles to a mix of Eley Tenex for matches and Black Box for short range pratice. I do think sticking with the same brand is critical due to possable problems with mixing lubes and bullet alloys. I don't have to shoot a lot of rounds of match Ammo to get the rifle to settle down that way. My general but unproven opinion after watching other people the top brands are all pretty good. Doubt if you would find any measurable difference between Lapua and Eley in a well set up rimfire rifle I could spend a lot of time trying everything out there but sticking with one well proven brand that's avalable and focusing on positon and conditons is to my mind the way to improve. We see a lot of our members shooting 200 yard rimfire bench at matches. While I don't shoot that match I would think the best is none too good at that distance. What with the bench matches being a mix of 10 shot re-entry and one single entry match I doubt of you could shoot over 2 boxes at one outing. Same ecconomics apply. Thats the way I see it anyway. Boats


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Paul_F. Ex Member	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #40 - Jul 21^st, 2006 at 12:46pm	Print Post
	Boats; I agree that the lower your volume of shooting, the more its practical to spend on the ammo... What I, and other, prone shooters are finding is that the Wolf Match Extra (at $4/box) is at very little IF ANY disadvantage to the ($11/box) Eley in many rifles. I'd be hard pressed to see any difference in groups. I can AFFORD to practice a LOT more with the Wolf than if I was using Eley. And, as I am hard pressed to see any difference in accuracy, I feel no disadvantage using it in a match either. Last weekend, I set a new personal best of a 1593-97x in a 1600 match with the Wolf Match Target. Two of my shots were just plain driver error... Match Extra might not shoot as well for others... or the Bean Counters that sent Federals rimfire ammo down in flames might go to work for Lapua at the SK plant any day now... But for now, I can practice with the SAME ammo I shoot matches with and I can AFFORD to do it. It all boils down to "shoot what works, that you can afford". Be that Eley, Wolf, or old Winchester "white box" ammo (which, by the way, shoots very well at 50 yards in my anschutz...). Anyway, I need to get back to brass-prepping some 8.15x46R brass for my Haenel-Aydt! Paul F.


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4232 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #41 - Jul 21^st, 2006 at 4:18pm	Print Post
	Eley Match EPS is a very good comprimise between price and quality compared to Ely's Tenex. The Match EPS exceeds Lapu's Midas L or M. in quality, accuracy and price. I found the weight variation and rim thickness variation of Lapua Midas to be two to four times the variation found in the Eley EPS Match which can ussuallly be had for 70% of the cost of the Lapua. However the ultimate in accuracy in the Eley line up is the Tenex.


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7728 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #42 - Jul 21^st, 2006 at 5:11pm	Print Post
	I agree with you guys except I don't mix brands pratice ammo to match ammo. All of the top brands have a pratice line thats very good and for 50 yard work very hard to tell any difference. Probably impossable to tell at 50 feet. My opinion is the rifle has to settle down after a cleaning or brand of Ammo change. Lube I guess although I can't prove it.


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Paul_F. Ex Member	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #43 - Jul 21^st, 2006 at 5:32pm	Print Post
	Wolf Match Target and Wolf Match Extra have the same lube Been sticking with Match Extra, and haven't tried the Match Target (the lower end of the line), but others that have have reported it shoots quite well, with some lots equalling the Match Extra. SK makes several more grades in between the lines they re-package for Wolf. I guess for ME, I don't want to "skimp" on ammo, but when the money runs out, the shooting stops.... As long as the Wolf's quality stays high, I can practice a lot with the same ammo I would shoot in a match for the money. I'm starting to sound like a Wolf Match Extra commercial... (You'd THINK they'd at least give me a discount...or a T-Shirt...) Paul F.


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Tony Nielson Newbie Offline Posts: 2 Joined: Jul 22^nd, 2006	Re: Accuracy expectations for .22LR Reply #44 - Jul 22^nd, 2006 at 3:40pm	Print Post
	You should have a read through our website: (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) We have spent 15 years studying the accuracy influencing factors in 22 LR shooting. Our research paper on our website describes our findings that bullet runout or concentricity has a huge influence in group size for 22 LR shooting. Consequently we designed and patented two different machines to easily sort 22 ammo by runout. There is also an independent review there that was published in Small Caliber News as well as some customer targets that were sent in. I also just happened upon a new forum at (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) in the smallbore section a gunsmith by the name of Mike Ross read our paper and didn't believe it. So he set our to do his own testing and found out how important concentricity sorting is. A very intersting read because he did his ammo sorting on a lathe and found the same as we did. Anyway, thought this might partain to your disscussion and as alway I am happy to answer any questions. Tony Nielson Nielson Brothers Arms, Inc.


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