Not mine (sob!!!), but could use some info for the real owner.  Any info would be helpful, all I have is the info from the J. Dutcher book and the James Grant books.  It is missing part of the original palm rest and the aperture for the Pope tang sight.  Caliber believed to be 32-40.  Any history, insights, etc. as well as a value would be appreciated.  For those of you that just started drooling, it is not for sale (sob!!!).  If you have those missing parts, sure would be nice to put it back to original.

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By the way, the bore is excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

max

HI guys and gals I own the Ballard in Question . MAX has been very kind as to start me off with this. Yes barrel was fitted for a false muzzel and Did not make it to me with gun . also I feel the bore to be in very great shape. There is not a mark or number anywhere on barrel .barrel is also milled as well as the action for scope . I feel the bore to be right hand. The double set triggers work very fine . The gun has been on a mans wall for about 50 + years .  Thought I would share this with the people who care about craftsmanship and quality. 
                                           THANKS PLUMBER

There is no name no number anywhere.  As for the screw  I do not think so I will check when I get home .

                                      THANKS PLUMBER

You are  correct I call it a Marlin ballard might have been redone at the Stevens factory , with Pope style trim.

                                               PLUMBER

  CHRIS 
     SORRY but I am lost with your post

                                PLUMBER

Chris,   

     Based on the timing of when various parts were available, I would say that the "Stevens-Pope-Ballard" reference would be barrel (made by Stevens under Pope's direct supervision or by his methods after he left them) and placed on a Ballard action.  I have also seen references to "Pope-Stevens-whatevers" to indicate that he actually did the work while at Stevens. 

HTH, Froggie

Stevens-Pope barrels made when Pope was there and after he left are marked “Stevens-Pope” and numbered.  If the rifling is right-hand to boot then we have an unknown-Ballard until more information in known.  Even barrels by makers such as Winchester, Marlin and Remington are marked by Stevens when they are re-rifled. I have two questions, is there a name just in back of the pistol grip on the stock, might be tiny letters and anything written under the buttplate?

The realization that "Stevens-Pope" is one entity, not two, clears it up for me.

Thanks

Chris Jens

Plumber,

     I think you have made it abundantly clear to all who are actually reading the whole thread that the barrel is unmarked.  I would tend to discount its being a Pope-made or Stevens-installed barrel as they were usually well marked at time of building.  Lots of people made high quality target rifles based on the very popular Marlin Ballard action.  We can safely say that your example is one of those and that it probably dates from the "Golden Age" of single shots around the "gay nineties" or right after the turn of the last century.  That lever is definitely in the style used by Pope, but he said he copied it from an older design used on European rifles of the percussion age.  I've seen some such in Central Europe. 

     Whatever else you can track down will be pure gravy on what is already a choice piece of ordnance.  If it were mine, I would slug the bbl, measure the twist (regardless of direction  ) and have one of the current mould makers make up a mould for a  Pope style bullet of appropriate dimensions then enjoy shooting what is obiously a fine rifle!  Congratulations.

Froggie

PS to Chris:  I assume you caught on to the need in the listing to distinguish between the muzzle loading and breech seating versions of the competitors' rifles.  I'm guessing that some owner of Plumber's rifle probably adapted his style to the latter (and later) technique and lost or discarded the false muzzle...more's the pity! 

Another thought, if the bottom of the pistol grip is checkered write me at mjpetrov@acsalaska.net.

Well guys Im back ! I still have this rifle and haven't done much with it I would like to find the correct Pope style scope mounts and a vintage palm rest any help would be great. I know its been a long time my computer world has came back  GLAD TO BE HERE !

Cant hurt to try  !

No  contact with Max, How can I tell if I need the Pope bases or the Pope mounts ?

Thank You ! I do have the cuts.You can make the rear cuts out on my  picture of the frame and the other is on the barrel , So rings it is .

Thanks One never knows without trying.

Since this mount is what Stevens based their scope mount on, I think someone who is a good machinist and welder could rework less expensive early Stevens mounts to make them into a base that would clamp on a Pope barrel. Of course the rear adjustment would be right hand thread and not left hand as Pope's were.
They wouldn't be Pope mounts, but clamped into the barrel cuts they'd serve the purpose and look close at a glance. Probably save a ton of dollars too, although the Stevens mounts might cost $300-$400 to start with.

Redsetter wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 1:53pm:


I'd hardly call anyone a piker for wanting to save several thousand dollars? And since there are many times the number of Stevens mounts vs. Pope, if I wanted mounts for my Pope, I sure wouldn't feel bad about finding a pair and making them work for myself.
Finding a Stevens scope without mounts or Stevens mounts without a scope would both take time. But if I found a pair of mounts loose, I'd consider them fair game for my purposes.

winplumber wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 7:11pm:


I absolutely love your Pope Ballard, but couldn't begin to make a guess. The market today is crazy, and I see them going much less than they did a decade ago. Have a couple Pope barreled rifles, and the prices a decade or two ago told me I'd never own one. But both of mine were stupid cheap and I can't say why anymore than I could guess what yours would sell for.
Maybe more pictures of your Ballard, plus any information on whatever tools and accessories accompany the gun, might help someone make a guesstimate?

Thanks for clearing that up. Without any Pope markings and since it's right hand twist it's not Pope rifling either, so it's a lot easier to guesstimate. I forgot the earlier posts telling us it wasn't a Stevens-Pope, and thus my error in thinking it was.
It's a very nicely done schuetzen rifle, with no provenance, and an unknown maker. The Pope tang sight adds a lot if it's an original Pope, and not a copy. But I see rifles like this selling anywhere from as low as $2300 to around $3,000 on the high end. 
If there was some history that could be traced, or some info on who did the work, it might get more. I have a very similar Ballard I purchased last year for under $2500 and in like new condition. But no tang sight. Same lever and buttplate, and presentation grade wood.