What would it take to make one of the new .22 Win low-wall have a chance at a match shooting offhand,not counting the shooter.Also who would do the work necessary,still going to get a martini but would like to have a competive low-wall.Still have a few months to get ready,just dont know that much about low-wall,hate to sink a boundle of money in one that hasent got a chance    Thanks   Ken

I have several BSA Martini Int'l's and one "new" Winchester Low Wall. Any and all of the Martini's are competitive. The Winchester is not. I did the "McGee Trigger Job" on the Winchester and ended up with a nice, crisp 2 lb trigger. That is not the problem. The barrel nor the chamber is capable of match accuracy. 

If the barrel was relined and rechambered, then the rifle would work well (not as good as a BSA Int'l, but well).

As usual, Fitz has hit the "nail on the head".

Dale53

IMO the Martini Intl is and has been the very best "bang for your buck" in a non-bolt target rifle. I suppect it would cost the average shooter [read non gunsmith] $1500 or more to build a rifle that will begin to equal a BSA Martini Intl. leadball

40 Rod;
I am gently going to disagree with you. I have two Brownings, a BPCR in 40/65 and the Creedmoor 45/90. There is NO better rifles for BPCR and Long Range than these two rifles. Further, they were pretty much affordable and they were available without waiting for years for one. No rifle on the line was more accurate. They were and are reliable to a fault. In fact, the only complaint that I have was the fact that you didn't dare take them fully apart. However, you can easily pull the wood and flush the actions once or twice a year without problems. Note that these rifles had Badger barrels and were DONE RIGHT!

The Winchester low-wall .22, on the other hand, has a standard chamber and a sub standard barrel. Correct those problems, and you would have a fine rifle.

Would I rather have original actions? Yep. Does that make them junk? Absolutely not.

Dale53

I ment no disrespect to Dale or any other shooter who owns a Browning. My problems with the action is I see no earthly reason to take an elegantly designed action and redesign it to make it more complicated. None of Brownings "improvements" made the action a better action, they just made them harder to work on. 

40 Rod

Being an unofficial martini pusher, it may suprise some to know that at first, I started shooting a Browning low wall (new variety). It was one of a few, based on internet chat, that had a decent chamber and barrel so it shot reasonably well for a beginning shooter. Only thing I did was do a Dale53 trigger job and added a palm rest. I bought a Mk III from a fellow shooter and well, the Browning found a new home with DWS who rather enjoyed it until it was stolen out of his van. Anyway, other than some pricey originals, the martini's still are a bargin and shoot well. For an offhand gun, I would go with a ISU (Mk IV) or a light weight Mk II; in that order. The ISU has a superior trigger capable of 8-12oz where the Mk II is closer to 22 oz. The price advantage is the Mk II being some $100-200 cheaper, but just as accurate. If you really want something more traditional, it would be hard to beat a Stevens 44, but it would cost slightly more to be in the same league as a martini. Suprisingly, both can be had for less than making a typical new low wall competitive. 

to take a somewhat contrarian approach-----I disagree with many of the above comments about the browning/winchester/browning/miroku/USRA/discontinued 22rf lowalls.  I had one that was stolen a few years back.  I had bought it used from  MI shooter after he got bitten by the Martinibug.   While it had some problems it WAS accurate.  I am very far from a top shooter, but I was able to break 240 with it in the 200yd schoyen.  Ed and SteveD had worked on the action so it had about a 2# ultra crisp trigger.  It was partial to the batch of WolfTM I had.  

HOWEVER----it is apparant from watching on-line discussions over the past 4 or 5 years that Miroku .22rf barrel QC is erratic in all types of rifles, some are really very good with the right ammo, others are not worth pouring hot yellow used coffee through.  Thanks to Ed I lucked onto a good one.

  In their redesign browning may have ruined a perfectly good trigger but at the same time they fixed an extractor/firing pin interaction problem that had caused erratic ignition in the originals--kind of a trade off there. 
The slender stock and splinter forend makes the factory stock very tought to shoot off the bench.  My scores improved greatly when I cobbled together a wider flat bottomed benchrest style forend. 
I'm not an offhand shooter but I suspect that the 2# trigger pull would present a basic obstacle to high-scoring offhand work.
 As with all .22's they are ammo sensitive

I think finding one with a good barrel would be tough but if you did it could be made into a good bench gun.  however the odds are against you since the anecdotal reports seem to indicate that the good ones are a clear minority--and those that have them don;t let go of them.  otherwise youd need to have the barrel set back and rechambered, a trigger job done, suitable restocking, sights etc etc.

For the money and effort's worth I am in total agreement with the above.  go with a BSA.  It is a far better shooting machine.  if only it had the traditional elegance of the 'wall, but as 'tis said, "beauty is as beauty does".  I'm currently and happily shooting an older 12/15 BSA, but missing my 'wall.

Yeah, It's a personal aesthetic judgement.  I like my 12/15 fine, (kind of wondering what it would look like with case colors on the frame and metallife on the block and internals and restocked with some really nice wood) and the Cadet actions, but the older hammer versions are --to me--big and clunky looking, and the newer MK-whatevers are just too --what can I say--"mechanical" looking even though--as a class they are probably among the most accurate 22's out there and very reasonably priced to boot.  but then I prefer chili over my country-fried steak and eggs instead of gravy.
Wayne