I have a Winchester model 1885 with a barrel that is marked in front of the reciever with a deep, sharp number "3".  I have been challanged that the barrel is not a "Number 3".  can someone tell me what the barrel should measure across the flats at the reciever and at the muzzle if in fact it is a number "3".

I am being told it is a # 1 or maybe a # 2.

Could this stamped number "3" mean something other than the weight of the barrel?

I am certain the barrel is original with respect to deminsions.
It measures .894 at the reciever, .820 at the forearm, and .761 at the muzzle. All measurments are across the flats.

DG

Glenn

Thanks for the info.

Don G

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Hello smoke810,

Is your Model 1885 a high-wall or a low-wall? The dimensions you list indicate that it is a No. 1 barrel. The number "3" stamped on the bottom of the barrel right next to the frame indicates that it was intended for a high-wall frame. The barrel size stamp should be stamped on the bottom flat just in front of the forestock tip, and possibly on the bottom flat between the flat-spring tenon dovetail slot and the forestock tenon slot.  The below information is the dimensional data for a size No. 1 barrel.

Size  Shank  Breech   Muzzle Diam     Length         Taper
1       .825      .90     .76/.75/.74    24/26/28”   .005/inch

3       .935    1.05          .90              30”        .005/inch

BertH,

Your reply is interesting to me.  I had an original .32-20 high wall that had a 3 digit serial #.  It was marked with a 1 in front of the forearm, and a 3 in front of the receiver.  The barrel dimensions were right for a #1 barrel.

After looking at John Campbells book which stated that the mark in front of the barrel was a duplicate of that in front of the forend, I asked the same question as this thread, and got the answer also that the workman must have screwed up in marking it.

Your answer makes more sense, in that it identified a barrel that was normally on a low wall but had been fit to a high wall receiver.

dave

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Hello DG,

Is your low-wall an early production panel-sided frame with the high contour breech block?

Hello DG,

Your low-wall is the more common "second" variation frame. For your benefit (and everyone else who is interested), I have cut & pasted the following text out of my rough draft manuscript;

"Low-wall frame types;

The lower tang (which is where the serial number is stamped) can be interchanged between some, but not all high-walls and low-walls. More specifically, the low-wall frame was made in three distinctly different variations, and the second variation (most common) was not interchangeable with a high-wall frame. The following is a brief description of each type/variation of the low-wall frame, and the approximate serial number/production timeframe; 

1. First variation:  It features a milled (paneled) frame sides much like the vast majority of the high-walls, with a breech block that is not scalloped (not contoured to the upper frame).  It was essentially a milled down high-wall frame, but was threaded for a small shank (.825”) barrel.  It could be threaded for a large shank (.935”) barrel if someone special ordered it with a No. 3 barrel, but it is very rarely encountered.  The vast majority of both the First and Second variation low-walls were made with a No. 1 barrel as standard, with a No. 2 being a special order option.  The top of the frame ring is most often found with a milled longitudinal groove that allowed for a better sight picture when a No. 1 barrel was used.  The serial number range is from circa 2250 - 17,500 (early 1886 to late 1887).  Because it is simply a milled down high-wall frame, nearly all of the internal parts are interchangeable, and the both of the stocks are interchangeable. 

2. Second variation:  Features a flat-sided frame with a scalloped breech block (contoured to the upper frame).  In order to make the low-wall frame trimmer and lighten the overall weight, Winchester milled the entire sides of the frame thereby deleting the flared sections. The upper rear section of the breech block was also milled to match the frame contour.  This made the entire frame thinner than the first variation, and it required a smaller sized forestock and butt stock.  As with the first variation, the frame ring is milled when a No. 1 barrel is present. The serial range is from circa 16,500 - 130,000 (mid 1887 to 1919).  Very few of the internal parts, or the lower tang are interchangeable with a high-wall, and this variation was threaded for the small shank .825 barrels only. This variation was also available in a Takedown frame.

3. Third variation:  Model 87 Winder Muskets only and they have the same style milled sides as the first variation low-wall frame, but with a scalloped breech block.  The most unique feature of this variation is that they are all threaded for LARGE shank barrels.  The top of the frame ring was never milled.  This third and final variation was simply a high-wall frame that was milled down, and all parts (including the lower tang are interchangeable with a high-wall).  The serial range is from circa 119,000 - to 139735 (end of production). It was never available as a Takedown."   end quote

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You are quite welcome... as more Model 1885 technical questions arise on this forum, I plan to answer them with the information that will be published in my future reference book. I highly encourage everyone to ask questions, and if you have an 1885 with any unusual features, to either discuss it with me here, or contact me at Win1885@msn.com. Winchester built a lot of unusual and fascinating Model 1885 rifles, muskets, and shotguns.

Bert

well, Bert just answered by question with a serial number check,  my rifle is has a different barrel than what it left the factory with.