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Brent
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Is this really a Pope?
Feb 20th, 2006 at 9:52am
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There is a rifle for sale that I find interesting..  There is no chance I'm going to buy it.  I'm tapped out for now, and I don't particularly like it, but it's a Winder highwall that has a cut out on the right side.  The seller claims that Pope did this sort of thing and that this may be one of his rifles.  I think the whole rifle looks way to crude and I can't imagine Pope did much of anything with Winders other than cannibalize them for the action.  Anyway, I'd be interested to see what others think.

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Did Pope buid rifles w/o marking them as his?
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Brent
  
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fallingblock
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Re: Is this really a Pope?
Reply #1 - Feb 20th, 2006 at 10:23am
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Not likely. All of the Pope rifles that I have seen are marked with his name.
The cut out on the right side of the action is found on some Pope high walls for ease of loading but others did the same. 
the barrel looks like a standard Winchester musket barrel.
The P in a circle I have seen some  where but can't recall what it is.
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Brent
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Re: Is this really a Pope?
Reply #2 - Feb 20th, 2006 at 11:30am
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The seller makes it fairly clear that he is guessing so I guess he is on the up and up more or less.  But I have to wonder how a rifle could shoot with Pope-like accuracy with a cut out like this, especially being on only one side.  So, when folks say that at least Pope did cutouts like this, even if this is just copycat work, I'm quite surprised.   

Thanks for the notes.   

Brent
  
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MP
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Re: Is this really a Pope?
Reply #3 - Feb 20th, 2006 at 12:17pm
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Pope did cut out the right side of .22’s like the one in the picture but little chance that he did this one.  Pope also made barrels without his name on them but  do have the numerical markings on the underside.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Is this really a Pope?
Reply #4 - Feb 20th, 2006 at 7:44pm
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There were numerous gunsmiths in the post WWII era that butchered High Walls with the same cutout on the right side. I once had a Buhmiller .22 Hornet High Wall that was similarly cut, and restocked with Bishop stocks.
Not only did Pope mark his barrels, but he also marked them with a number underneath the forearm.
  
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MP
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Re: Is this really a Pope?
Reply #5 - Feb 21st, 2006 at 1:37am
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[quote author=marlinguy 
Not only did Pope mark his barrels, but he also marked them with a number underneath the forearm. [/quote]

I have never seen a Pope barrel without the numerical markings on the underside of the barrel but I have seen more than one that was not marked with his name.  There is a Hartford Pope right here in town that does not have his name on it. 
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Is this really a Pope?
Reply #6 - Feb 21st, 2006 at 8:21am
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The P in the circle is often the hallmark of the infamous Harlow Parkenfarker. Parkenfarker has butchered many a High wall, he is most famous for converting High Walls to full auto. 

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waterman
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Re: Is this really a Pope?
Reply #7 - Mar 4th, 2006 at 1:37am
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As I said on my post in the SS section, I have been chasing single shots for more than 40 years.  About 10 years ago, I came across the only Stevens 44 1/2 I have ever seen for sale.  It was in a pawn shop in Arizona and had a barrel marked HM Pope.  It was a 25-20 SS and looked pretty new & had all the bells & whistles.  But it looked as if it had been made 2 weeks earlier, not sitting in a closet for 70 or 80 years.  The 1995 asking price was $2,200 and something deep inside said "leave it on the rack".  So I did. Was that a Pope?

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Re: Is this really a Pope?
Reply #8 - Mar 15th, 2006 at 4:14pm
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That is not a H. Pope built/modified gun. It is a Second Model Winder Musket that has been crudely built in to a target rifle  by Joe Smith the gunsmith. The "P" in the circle is not "the infamous Harlow Parkenfarker" ... it is Winchester's proof mark for a barrel sold for outside fitting, and it was used in place of the normal "WP" proofmark.
  

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