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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Slug Guns (Read 23349 times)
sluggunner
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Re: Slug Guns
Reply #30 - Jul 22nd, 2007 at 12:54pm
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Use caution when reading the Robert's book. Don't misunderstand me I think we are fortunate to have it. I also know that there are many mistakes in it. An example is the report of the "Little Gerorge Lainhart" rifle and the one mile one hundred eighty seven foot, "measured not guessed at", shot that killed the Confederate General. Never happened.
  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Slug Guns
Reply #31 - Jul 22nd, 2007 at 6:17pm
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The "Little George" story was written by Charles Winthrop Sawyer in the chapter "At Long Range" in his book "Our Rifles."  In this book there was, in between descriptions of the various rifles made in various times in this country, a recurring fictional theme starring one John Metcalf, who was a sort of "everyrifleman" in the wars this country was involved with.

Sawyer was, if I recall, a librarian and a thoroughgoing rifle crank who profited from both vocations by being an excellent writer on his favorite subject.  That, plus the mixing of rifle fact with these fictional excursions, had the effect of making one think it was all fact.

The long range shot was one of those things that could have happened, even if it didn't.
  
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sluggunner
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Re: Slug Guns
Reply #32 - Jul 22nd, 2007 at 7:42pm
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Bent-Ramrod you're correct about Sawyer and the way he wove fiction and fact. It makes for good reading too. He never intended for the story to be taken literally.
Unfortunately some less than scrupulous people got into the act and later owners of the rifle passed the story off as true. It was published as fact in a well known magazine and Jack Webb got ahold of the story and made a t.v. show out of it entitled "One Shot To Kill". He also presented it as fact and so the story goes on.
My problem is that Roberts put the story in his book and states that it is the truth. He also says that he examined the War Department records of the event.
Too bad as there is plenty of interesting true information about the old guns, old makers and old matches. 
                                                       Rich
  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: Slug Guns
Reply #33 - Jul 23rd, 2007 at 5:59pm
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Here it is if you'd like to read it, I'm sure it's fictional, but it's a good read.

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Bob
  
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EdStutz
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Re: Slug Guns
Reply #34 - Jul 30th, 2007 at 5:10pm
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Jeffer1942,

Thanks for the kind words.

I read lots about H.V. Perry, he was an accomplished shooter and rifle maker in the Slug Gun era. He also had a reputation for challenging other shooters then negotiating his wy out of the match when he couldn't get his way. He tried it one year with Horace Warner and after several weeks of hassling Warner backed him into a corner and Perry could not get out without ruining his reputation as a gun builder. They each built a new gun for the match which was 4 or 5 10 shot string measure targets winner take all (don't remember the cash amount). Warner won easily. Seems Perry showed up with a .45 cal and Warner showed up with a 96# .68 cal shooting a 1250 grain two piece bullet.
Perry didn't learn anything from that experience cause a few months later he was challenging other shooters.

Ron Wozny from Chicago a fellow Slug shooter from Friendship owns both the Perry and the Warner used in the Match. He brought the Warner to Friendship one year and allowed some of the shooters to shoot, unfortunately I missed out.

In my opinion I believe that Warner was the best rifle maker of the late Slug Gun era. The ASSRA has some of his letters in the archives. I have a set and loaned mine to Pete Mink who took on the task of transcribing the hand written missives in to type written form that is currently available from the archives on CD form for I understand a very modest cost, I learned a great deal about shooting from those letters. I think Pete deserves the gratitude of us shooters as this material is not lost like so many others.  Thanks Pete!

A moment of nostalgia here as I recall that I have shot Slug Guns for 20 + years and have made many friends and learned from them, Marlin (Bass) Bassett, Ken Bresein who made my first slug gun, Gerry De Vaudreul (spelling) Ron Wozny, George Mitchell, Branch Meanly, Don Warner and many many more, each of whom taught me. I dearly love to shoot those guns, it is a labor of love, lots of work, yes a strong back is a must, and as my back is giving out on me my Slug Gun days are about over, but what a great time I have had. Shooting at Friendship, Canal Fulton, Camp Perry, Tusco, and Phoenix.

I am now in a new venue meeting new friends and learning to shoot these wondeful Single Shot rifles. Those are wonderful guns but they aint a Slug Gun!!

Ed
  
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Doug_Nelson
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Re: Slug Guns
Reply #35 - Jul 30th, 2007 at 11:27pm
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[snip]
Quote:

... Warner won easily. Seems Perry showed up with a .45 cal and Warner showed up with a 96# .68 cal shooting a 1250 grain two piece bullet.
 

[snip]

Ed, in The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle, [1958 edition, ch 6] Roberts reports that in a series of four matches, Perry won two and Warner won two, leaving no one the wiser about who made the better rifle.  Was the match you describe part of this series, or was it another match altogether?  Or did Roberts have it wrong?

I must say that the thought of a 96 lbs muzzle loader makes me cringe.  I've got a 40 pounder, and that is all the fun I can handle!  Do you know if Warner loaded it by himself?  If he did, my respect for him is increased!
Doug
  
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EdStutz
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Re: Slug Guns
Reply #36 - Jul 30th, 2007 at 11:52pm
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This match was  seperate from what Roberts reported and is documented in Shooting and Fishing and in the Warner letters.
If you have access to Shooting and Fishing you can follow the whole saga of challenge by Perry and the subsequent negotiations which Warner won, if he hadn't there would not have been a match. That's how Perry worked his challenges, by getting his opponent disgusted enough to break off the negotiations, hence no acceptence to the challenge and Perry wins by default. S&F documents several challenges by Perry as did some of the other magizines of the era. 

Yes he loaded the gun himself they were not wimps back then nor is George Mitchell when it comes to loading and shooting the SS Illinois, his version of the Warner .68 cal.

I shoot a 35 pound .46 cal, which I plan to do in September, finally.

BTW Perry and Warner competed many times over the years. Perry had to withdraw on more than one occasion when he saw that Warner was winning. Can't compete with a malfunctioning gun. That has been documented also. It is a shame as Perry was a good shot and maybe could have won some of those matches, but apparently his ego wouldn't take the chance.

Ed
  
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