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Cheapscate
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High Wall barrel markings.
Jan 17th, 2006 at 2:21am
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I have a #3 High Wall barrel in 45-70 that appears to be a smooth bore. It is pretty crusty with not a trace of rifeling. Hard to imagine all signs of any rifleling being worn away. The markings under the fore-arm include a small "star" and an "s" that is stamped parallel to the bore. The whole rifle is a hodge-podge of parts.  The museum letter only says that it was a 45-70, no mention of being smooth bore, but there is a 10 year gap between approximate manufacture date and the date it went to the warehouse. Any ideas on the "star"?
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: High Wall barrel markings.
Reply #1 - Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:02am
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Cheapscate, I don't know about the star (or the "s") marking, but I DO know that smoothbore barrels in a couple of calibers have turned up on original high-walls.  I have had an original .38-55 in my hands that was convincingly presented as original smoothbore, and Campbell's books (or maybe it was just the second book) on the 'walls also confirm that the factory would provide that option.  I believe I remember seeing some .45-70 shot cartridges that had a woooden "bullet" which was actually the shot container.

HTH, Froggie
  
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Bert_H.
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Re: High Wall barrel markings.
Reply #2 - Jan 17th, 2006 at 11:06pm
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Hello Cheapscate,

The various stamped marks that appear on the bottom of barrels are both interesting, and somewhat of a mystery. That said, the "S" is most likely an inspector's stamp. I am not sure what the star represents.  I am somewhat surprised that it does not have a punchmark right next to the frame, with a "3" right next to the punchmark. It should also have a VP in an oval or triangle. Did you remove the flat spring and look under it?

Bert H.
  

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Cheapscate
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Re: High Wall barrel markings.
Reply #3 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 12:13am
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Bert: Yes, I neglected to include all the markings.  There is indeed a punch mark near the reciever, and also what looks like part of a three. The vp in an oval is there too along with the caliber (45-70).  Threre is also what can only be described as "almost an H", I don't really think it is an "H" but that is as close as I can describe it.
     Also... on the receiver, on the little flat just in front of the lever near the pivot pin, there is what almost looks like a three bladed propeller.
     The barrell has been shortened to 25 1/2 inches and a make-shift front sight made from a copper penny in a hand-filed dovetail. The rear sight is the folding "Express".  All this on a smooth-bore?? Beats me.
     The old gun was probably in pretty nice shape before someone stored it in a very damp place. Now it is not very pretty.

Bill
  
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Bert_H.
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Re: High Wall barrel markings.
Reply #4 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 3:14pm
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Hello Bill,

Can you send me a clear photo of the "propeller" stamp mark? I have seen various numbers stamped in that location, and a small triangle, but never the mark you describe. In most cases, when I see a Model 1885 with a stamped mark on the bottom of the frame just forward of the lever, it is a coil-spring action. I have seen the numerals 7, 9, 16, 17, and 18, and the previously mentioned triangle.

Regards,
Bert Hartman (Win1885@msn.com)
  

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Cheapscate
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Re: High Wall barrel markings.
Reply #5 - Jan 19th, 2006 at 2:13am
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Bert:  I am not much of a photographer. Don't know how I would manage to get a picture of the "propeller". The old gun is a bit of a mystery. Serial No. is 472XX which would indicate a production date of 1890 or 91 yet my museum letter says that it went to the warehouse on April 3, 1900. Hard to imagine it sitting around the shop for 10 years. I guess it could happen, just strange. The lower tang fit to the frame is just like it is suposed to be...... very neat and almost invisible so I am pretty sure the serial# is correct. It also has the breach block that was factory bushed for a small fireing pin. The hammer is the early, thick style. As best I can tell, the frame was blued. The hammer, block, and lever were case hardened (not real sure about the lever) All the screws are "as new", it hasn't been apart very many times, if at all.  The only screw heads that are buggerd up are the tang screws.  The but-stock has been replaced with one from a musket. A very, very sloppy job. My guess is that whoever changed the but-stock did not know what they were doing and that is what happened to the tang screws. The rest of the screw heads are perfect.
     The rifle is now in the process of being rebuilt. I knew when I bought it that it was in pretty rough shape. I wanted the action, one that was of no particular interest to a collector.

Bill

  
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Bert_H.
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Re: High Wall barrel markings.
Reply #6 - Jan 19th, 2006 at 11:29am
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Hello Bill,

I have found a fair number of 1885s that letter much later than one would expect.  In my research database (I have nearly 3500 Model 1885 serial numbers recorded thus far), serial number 47138 was shipped 3-31-1891, and 47350 was shipped on 4-3-1891. Your rifle should have been in that date range. It does not surprise me that it has a blued frame with a warehouse date in 1900, and that it has the bushed firing pin. The lever was originally case colored.

Are you rebuilding it as a 45-70? Also, would you be interested in participating in my research survey? If so, please contact me at Win1885@msn

Regards,
Bert Hartman

  

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Cheapscate
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Re: High Wall barrel markings.
Reply #7 - Jan 20th, 2006 at 1:53am
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Bert: I already have a couple of 45-70s and frankly do not enjoy shooting either one of them...... this one will probably be a 40-65.
     I will be e-mailing you regarding your survey.
     Oh, by the way, the serial# on the gun is very faint.  The tang in that area really needs some attention but the number will not stand for much cleaning. I would like to have it improved/re-stamped.  I am thinking of seeing an engraver about it....... any sugestions?

cheapscate....... Bill Boylan
  
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Bert_H.
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Re: High Wall barrel markings.
Reply #8 - Jan 20th, 2006 at 11:04am
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Hello Bill,

I would be inclined to leave the serial number as is, especially if it is still readable. I am not familar with anyone who can re-engrave the serial number for you. 40-65 WCF is a good choice, as it just requires swapping out the barrel.

Regards,
Bert
  

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marlinguy
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Re: High Wall barrel markings.
Reply #9 - Jan 20th, 2006 at 6:44pm
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Dale Woody recut all the barrel rollstamps, receiver patents, and serial number on my Hepburn. He can do it, and do it inexpensively. He can be reached at:
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Cheapscate
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Re: High Wall barrel markings.
Reply #10 - Jan 21st, 2006 at 12:51am
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Thanks for that information Marlinguy.  I will check him out.
  
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Cheapscate
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Re: High Wall barrel markings.
Reply #11 - Jan 25th, 2006 at 12:41am
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I took the lower tang to Dale Woody yesterday. It looks pretty good. I would have prefered to leave the serial number alone, but it was very, very faint and the tang in that area was really rough. Dale did not try to re-stamp it, he just deepened the numbers with an engraving tool. It will take a very practiced eye to tell it from original. He seems to do a lot of this work.  He did the number on an 86 frame before he did mine, to show me what it would look like when finished. If you need a number refreshed, or some lettering re-worked...... I would recomend contacting him.
  
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