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rpf2697
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Ballard Help.. how old?
Jan 16th, 2006 at 1:29am
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I have an old Ballard in need of some restoring that has a serial number of 16274.  Can anyone tell me when it was made?  It appears to be of 45 calibre and has a 30" octogon barrel.  I was informed it may be a "pacific".. I think that's what he told me.  Any help would be appreciated.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Ballard Help.. how old?
Reply #1 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 11:25am
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In answer to your first question...I am not aware of a list of manufacture dates as is available for the high-wall, for instance (and it's not for lack of looking!)  ???  You may be assured that it was made before the early 1890s when Marlin ceased regular production of the Ballard.

You might be able to get a feel for the date by comparing it to the last serial numbers known and working back, but that is pretty iffy.  A little info may be derived from the manufacturer's stamping, with J. Marlin being the older one.  I don't have my books with me right now to be more specific.

Identifying the model as a Pacific (also called a #5) is not too hard if it is a standard issue.  The rifle should have a medium heavy full octagon barrel (about like a Winchester #4) with a wooden "wiping rod" slung underneath.  The fore end should have a single screw running laterally through the wood and the bottom edge of the barrel, and the buttstock is probably a standard rifle with crescent buttplate, but may have a shotgun style butt.  There is no pistol grip or cheek piece.  Basic issue sights are blade front and a standard semi-buckhorn rear, but these were frequently upgraded.  Finally, the breech block should have double set triggers and a lever that ends in a small oval loop.  One additional point is that it will have serial numbers on every major piece and if original they should all match.

This got longer than expected, but maybe it will help.  For further info, refer to either Layman's little paperback book on Ballards or for the full story go to Dutcher's epic work that virtually tells it ALL!  Wink

HTH, Froggie
  
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phillipsvilla
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Re: Ballard Help.. how old?
Reply #2 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 12:54pm
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HI,
If you are referring to the Ballard patent, It may be made by
Ball & Williams or R Ball & Co  they are almost the same  and their serial ranged from the mid 15000's to the upper 17000's. If this is the case, your gun would have been made between 1865 and 1867
according to Dutcher reference on Ballard rifles.
Ray
  
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rpf2697
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Re: Ballard Help.. how old?
Reply #3 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 1:20pm
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Froggie, Thanks much for the information.. you described it perfectly.. it must be the Pacific but the sights are missing.  Ray's information leads me down another road of uncertainty... maybe it's a Ball & Williams that duplictes the Ballard Pacific based on the serial number range.. maybe pictures would help.
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Re: Ballard Help.. how old?
Reply #4 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 8:08pm
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rpf,
The left side of the receiver should be marked either "JM Marlin", or "Marlin Firearms Co." if it is a Marlin built Ballard. If the marking is Marlin Firearms Co., then it will date from 1882 to 1890. If it's JM Marlin, then it's around 1877-1881. There's a little overlap, as the receivers were pre-stamped.
Pre-Marlin Ballard did not have the wiping rod, as they had external ejectors, which hung under the barrel, and would get in the way of the rod mounting. If your gun has internal automatic ejector, it's most likely a Marlin Ballard. 
Vall
  
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rpf2697
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Re: Ballard Help.. how old?
Reply #5 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 8:39pm
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Vall,
My rifle has been painted with a heavy coat of green and hides any marking other than the serial number which was found on the bottom of the receiver and under the barrel when I removed the forearm.  I can't see any markings.. i'll try to send you a photo to your e-mail.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Ballard Help.. how old?
Reply #6 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 9:17pm
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Green, GREEN?  You must have found my long lost Ballard Pacific...please send it back immediately to me at... Roll Eyes

All kidding aside, the green paint is not original, as you may have surmised, and it wouldn't hurt anything to remove said paint, espedially from the left side of the receiver alongside the chamber location.  This is where you will find the markings to which my friend the Marlinguy alludes.  He is MUCH more knowledgeable about these funny rifles than I, but I think we are in agreement that if it has the features mentioned it most probably IS a Marlin-made Ballard.  If the sights are missing altogether, you might want to look at the newly made Lyman tang sights for Marlin and their or someone else's globe sight to at least get you started shooting.   Several outfits are making repros of about any level of sight you might desire from the basic blade and buckhorn to some very nice (and expen$ive) target sights.  BTW, there was a good breakdown description for everything about your rifle except the double set trigger assembly in an old issue of the American Rifleman.  If you will drop me a PM with your snail mail address, I could probably get a Xerox out to you.

the Green Frog
  
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rpf2697
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Re: Ballard Help.. how old?
Reply #7 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 9:33pm
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I'll work on a safe way to remove the paint and would really appreciate a copy of the article on the Ballard.  Thanks for the offer to send it to me.
Rhett Imperiale
P.O. Box 125
Hydesville, Ca. 95547
  
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corvette
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Re: Ballard Help.. how old?
Reply #8 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 12:54pm
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Hi

The green may not paint it could be tarnished on a plated 
receiver.

  larkin
  
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rpf2697
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Re: Ballard Help.. how old?
Reply #9 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 4:19pm
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Paint remover has revealed the Marlin Firemarms over Ballard markings on the left side of the receiver.  Alos the barrel is marked 45 govt on the top just in front of the action.  The pitting is not bad and quite shallow... encouraging for a restoration I hope.  I sent photos to marlinguy for his advice.
thanks all..
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: Ballard Help.. how old?
Reply #10 - Jan 18th, 2006 at 8:48pm
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Got the pictures, and it does appear to be a Pacific, as Froggie surmised. It's the later version with Marlin Firearms Co. rollstamp, and will most likely date to around 1887 or thereabouts.
It will need a fair amount of work, but it's one of those that would be better off restored than to just clean up. Most the time I tend to stop short of reccommending a restoration of original old guns, but I think rpf's gun would be a good candidate.
  
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