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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Rule book says........ (Read 26701 times)
Nailman
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Rule book says........
Dec 20th, 2005 at 3:33pm
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Section 1.13 Hits in Offhand Matches
In Offhand Matches any hit on the paper is scored. Hits outside of the scoring rings will be scored at ten (10) points.

My Question is that at all ranges? Including 50 foot & 50 yards & 100 yards & 200 yards? THANKS, Nailman...
  
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #1 - Dec 20th, 2005 at 4:18pm
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The offhand targets for 200 yd are the number 3 and number 4.  Hits outside the scoring rings on those are scored 10 points.
Same for the number 1, 100 yd offhand target. That is half the size of the #3 and #4.

The # 8 that is fired offhand at 50 yd, 5 shots per bull, states on it that outside the scoring rings are scored a miss.

The indoor offhand target that is the #7, 50 ft target is scored as outside the scoring rings is a 10.

So unless it is marked on the target, or stated otherwise in a match  then a hit ,outside the scoring rings is scored as 10, in offhand matches only.

That is what I see from the rule book, and from memory.

Lets see if I got it right.





  
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GWarden
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #2 - Dec 20th, 2005 at 5:12pm
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I have in front of me one of the 50ft. ASSRA targets,and on the upper left hand corner it states " Shots outside the scoring ring are scored as a miss", sounds like that is a big ol'   
0 score.
Bob
  

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boats
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #3 - Dec 21st, 2005 at 5:14pm
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I always feel bad when scoring 10 for a shot outside the ring. ASSRA Schuetzenmasters allow it but somehow it feels wrong.

Other thing that feels strange after shooting other target sports is re-firing a total miss. I understand but cannot say for sure 10 holes on the paper are scored even if you have to shoot more than 10.

Anybody know what the rule is ? .

Boats
  
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PETE
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #4 - Dec 21st, 2005 at 7:35pm
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Boats,

  The ASSRA rule is that on the 100 and 200 yd. targets that you can shoot till you get 10 shots on the paper. I could tell some interesting stories of people having to go looking for more ammo to get the requisite number on the target.  Grin

  The 50 ft. and 50 yd. targets have notations on them stating that shots outside the scoring ring are scored as misses. So, as far as I'm concerned that negates any rule in the rule book. If the BoD wants to change it then so notify the members and change the wording on the targets. Until then thats the way we run our matches!

  WSU rules say you shoot ten shots, on any target... or whatever the match calls for...... and if you miss the target, or are outside the scoring rings, tough luck, it's a miss.

  The ASSRA's two different rules governing the 50 ft., and 50 Yd. Targets, and 100 & 200 yd. outdoor targets seems to be confusing to some. The rule book doesn't help either! People should familiarize themselves with all the targets before making pronouncements about them. It just adds to the confusion.

  Like you I don't think the "Shoot till you get ten on the target" is right and then get ten points just for hitting it. Seems like cheating! I'll bet the old timers would be spinning in their graves if they knew about that! But, you have to understand that most ASSRA shooters seem to be incapable of shooting offhand. Yes..... That's a sarcastic remark, and meant as such. That's why not many shoot offhand and those that do want a handicap. I'd like a handicap for shooting bench to, but don't think I'll get it.  Grin Say anything outside the 23 ring will be counted as a 23.

  Sorry for the rant, but it's one of my pet peeves. I missed in the EDC match, and it's a larger target than the ASSRA 200 yd. one, but all I got out of that was "Tough luck. You should have held tighter!".

PETE
« Last Edit: Dec 21st, 2005 at 7:41pm by »  
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Dale53
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #5 - Dec 21st, 2005 at 8:11pm
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Pete;
Regarding the "ten shots on the target". When ASSRA was organized (in 1948, I believe) the people that founded the organization came from The National Muzzle Loading Rifle Matches. That rule was in effect at Friendship (home of the NMLRA) and was carried over. It shortly became a "Tradition".

We actually have a goodly number of offhand shooters. I was one until four ruptured discs decreed otherwise. It sure as h*ll ain't from choice!

Dale53
  
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mes
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #6 - Dec 21st, 2005 at 9:34pm
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Pete:
<<<<<Like you I don't think the "Shoot till you get ten on the target" is right and then get ten points just for hitting it. Seems like cheating! I'll bet the old timers would be spinning in their graves if they knew about that!<<<<<

     I also don't think its right to shot more than 10 per target & the rule should be changed.   
     As far as the old timers go they in most cases had a target that had scoreing rings  out to the one ring and it is a huge target.  They also had people sitting in the target houses that scored and put a spotter into the bullet hole.  The Black Wolf Schuetzen Verein still has that target in use for some of our matches.  Quite hard to miss but I have managed it upon occasion and you did not get to shoot a make up shot.  That was back (missing it that is) when I had trouble getting into the 1700's for a hundred shot match.
mes
  

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joeb33050
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #7 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 5:58am
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Quote:
 
 
 Like you I don't think the "Shoot till you get ten on the target" is right and then get ten points just for hitting it. Seems like cheating! PETE

I frequently disagree with Pete, but in this case he is just being foolish. He sreems to suggest that it is possible to shoot only 10 shots offhand and have EACH and EVERY one of those shots hit the paper! I can testify to the absolute FACT that this is impossible, as I have demonstrated many times and can demonstrate on demand!
Why do you think we have spotting scopes, Pete? To count those shots that are on the paper.
This kind of talk is going to discourage the old timers and new shooters as well, and should be kept off this forum-MR. MODERATOR! 
joe b.
  
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #8 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 6:35am
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I think the ASSRA has a number of off hand shooters.  It is just hard for many of them to lift the rifle anymore.
  
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boats
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #9 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 7:55am
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The rules are the rules and when when you shoot a match you have to follow what ever the club allows.

However allowing total misses not to count and giving 10 points to a shot outside the scoring rings is just kidding youself.

It's like in golf, many people talk about there scores.  And don't say a word about Mulligans, dropping another ball when one goes out of bounds, improving there lie and many other ways to pump up egos while hiding lack of ablity.

The WSU rule is the way to go as far as I am concerned.   

Boats
  
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #10 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 8:06am
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When I go to a new club or a club  that goes by different rules at their matchs, I go by their rules while there shooting, no matter what.

I guess it is like, When in Rome do as the Roman's.
If I don't like said clubs rules, then I don't go back, kinda easy I thought.

  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #11 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 8:52am
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The 10-shots-per-target would work fine if we were shooting short relays and only one target up at a time.  But with longer relays and multiple targets in play few of us shoot ten consecutive shots at one target. 
 
Frankly I'm just beginning to try offhand shooting, with the 22s,  ANYTHING that would increase my score would help my ego, but the 50yd targets don't allow the "anything that hits the paper counts for something" rule. 
I personally don't see as how it would really have much impact. I have a hard time imagining a situation where it would affect the top ten order in any given match. The top shooters won't be hurt by it and it would help encourage the "have-nots" to keep trying.
  In my relatively short time in the ASSRA the single most common complaint is the lack of new shooters. It is discussed and cussed by almost e veryone and at every event.  "how do we get more, new recruits to the game.  Besides the obvious cost of the sport, the daunting gap between the scores of the good shooters and the rest of us is another factor.
  I HAVE talked to a number of repeat non-shooting visitors to the EG matches. These are guys who have the guns and who shoot them elsewhere but won't compete because their scores wouldn't be worth it.
  I posit that that allowing the any-hit-counts-for-something rule is to encourage the entry level shooters.  As I recall from history thats why they allowed it in the Muzzleloading days and why it got carried over into the early ASSRA.

There are actually quite a few Offhand shooters at the EG matches.  A lot more than are reflected in the published match results since a large majority of the targets fired are never turned in.  There are a lot of offhand shooters who never turn one in so their name doesn't show up.

Its pretty easy for us to play the "old-time" card when we are riding out our pet peeves, whether its actions, calibres, powders, sights, or rules.  I'm sure there are a lot of things that the "old-timers" would find perplexing about the way we play their game now.  some they'd turn their nose up at, others they'd grab with both hands and run with. .   

Just my extremely personal opinion Roll Eyes
wayne
  

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40_Rod
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #12 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 9:08am
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In the early days at most clubs targets were limited and everyone shot on the same targets. You loaded your rifle and took your score sheet / ticket to a scoreing offical. Then you shot, and your shot was scored by the pit boy. The offical that recorded your score. If you shot and you missed you got what you deserved a zero. 
Today we have individual targets and it is inpossible to hold all shooters to the 10 shots only rule. There is no doubt in my mind that many higher scores have been shot over the years than were deserved. However that is the rules and so be it. It is up to the individual shooters to hold themselves to the original standards. If you feel that it is wrong there is no shame in telling the Shcuetzenmeister that you missed and that is why there is only nine holes in your target. 

40 Rod
  
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GWarden
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #13 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 10:52am
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It's not that we are missing the target completely, but it's those invisible bullet eaters that grab and eat our bullets before they get to the target. 
Instead of getting our shorts all in a bind, let's put our efforts into something postive to make us better off hand shooters.
What are the techniques that have helped us become better off hand shooters- I could sure use the help.
I know one good technique for me is, practice, practice, practice. Yes, I can miss the target with the best of them.
I like what Pope said about good targets are the abscence of bad shots, or something to that. I just wish I could use up my supply of bad shots.
Bob
  

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Dale53
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Re: Rule book says........
Reply #14 - Dec 22nd, 2005 at 12:43pm
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GWarden;
You have hit the nail on the head. Practice, practice, practice should be the by-word.

However, it is MOST difficult to cast enough bullets to shoot as much as we should. 

The answer is simple, however:

Use a .22 configured similar to your centerfire rifle. However, that still requires a rifle range.

Final answer:
Use an air rifle configured similar to your center fire  rifle and set up a range at home. The very best pellets cost only 5%-10% of good .22 ammo and you have the best practice that can be had. You'll pay for the rather high cost of an Olympic grade air rifle in a rather short time compared to either .22 cost or centerfire cost. Not to mention the saving in time. You can shoot three times a week (and I mean meaningful shooting) for mere pennies. 

Your endurance will grow by leaps and bounds and your scores will climb. What's not to like? Grin

Dale53
  
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