Looks like I stirred up a hornets nest...... which is good.

  Of course, as has been suggested, when at a match you shoot by the rules they set up. And I do so.

  Many offhand shooters can't put 10 consectutive shots on the paper, and I've missed a few myself. And you can bet if the rules say "shoot till you get ten on the paper" I use it! In the EDC match it was my very first shot that missed. Just had to much pressure on the trigger when the gun was "off" the paper. Talk about a "downer"! But..... and this is addressed at JoeB.... the rest of the 99 shots were on the target and in the scoring rings. Jim Luke shot with us and I believe he kept all 100 shots in the scoring rings. So, it can be done, but as GWarden says, you've got to put in the practice. Something most don't want to do. After learning the basics there are no secrets. The best practice is match shooting.

  As I've mentioned, I shoot my air rifle (50 shots) every day that I'm not shooting our regular sessions at the range. We're shooting 50 shots twice a week at those sessions to get "toughened up" for the 50 shot a week League that starts the first of Jan. Plus we put in 20 shots for a local league we have, and we'll also be shooting the ASSRA Postal again next year.

  Now, if you've followed my scores you'll notice with even that amount of practice and match shooting I'm not an exceptional shot. More like middle of the pack. Slow but sure I'm improving, but I doubt if I'll ever cause Garbe, Luke, Feren, et. al. to break into a cold sweat when I show up at a match.

  So, all these excuses people make for having "shoot till you get ten", are just that. Excuses by and for people who want a handicap because they don't want to put in the time and effort to become good at it. I've never shot in any other gun competition where you're allowed this. If you miss that's just tough luck! Get over it! Make up your mind to do better next time. Put in the practice.

PETE

Joe,

  Your points are well taken, and as you say, the current winners will always be the winners no matter what size target you use, or the rules you install. So, as far as the ASSRA & WSU rules go, I shoot whatever rules they shoot under. I've got no problem with it.

  I just don't understand why you have to make it so inexperienced competitors "feel good" about themselves. As you say "What's the point!". All making it "easy" does is promote the idea that they don't have to put out much effort to have a good score. I think a lot of what's wrong with this world today is that we don't want to make "Johnny" feel like he isn't just as good as everyone else so we'll make it easy for him so his feelings aren't hurt.

  Sure "easy" targets give everyone a high score, and a "feel good" feeling. But I thought the idea of offhand shooting was to to test your abilities, and force you to improve your physical and mental conditioning so you can do better, which in turn makes you a better person. Offhand shooting is tough, and there's no getting around it. It ain't for the "wannabe's", and people not willing to work at it.

PETE

bolt actions?????? whooooah nelly!!!---the world would come to an end.

for me the attraction is the single shots themselves, and the camaraderie among the people who shoot'em. Not so much for the competition.  Who knows if I had a competetive personality, was a natural shot with eagle vision, and had been shooting 3-position  competition since I was a kid  It might be totally different story.

another thought then I'll quit.  if you wanna teach kids to swim there two schools of thought.  throw 'em in the deep end those that survive and don't take up golf will become swimmers of some sort.  or start'em in the shallow end build up confidence and teach'em technique and someday thay may win an Olympic medal.

If we were to start counting "misses" who would do the counting, would every shooter have a "counter" the counting could not be left up to the shooter, thats asking  for someone to cheat. Seems to me we"re talking about a scoring nightmare.  leadball

Pete,
All I can say to that last post is...Amen!

Gut Ziel und Heil Schuetzen!

Steve

Jim,

  High & Mighty? Critise?

  Sir. I take exception to that. I was expressing an opinion...... Mine! Which I have a right to do. Right? If others agree, or disagree, you and they have a right to dissent. That is what makes any organization go around.

  But to resort to name calling is not called for.

  Now. If you feel that I'm a disruptive force that wishes ill on the ASSRA, and the way it conducts it's matches..... let me know. I will be glad to take my business elsewhere!

  Be interesting to see how long you leave this up.

PETE

Keith,

  Thanks for bringing a little sanity to this discussion.

  As it stands I have no quarrel with what the rules are in any organization I shoot in....... ASSRA, WSU, NRA, NMLRA, IRGC, PRRC, etc. I feel those rules were set up by people who have the best interests of the organizations in mind. I might disagree with them, but will follow them till they're changed. But......

  We wonder why we can't get more members. A heavy handed approach to people who have contradictory ideas on rules, matches, etc. is one reason why. There are many people on here that don't belong to the ASSRA. What do you think they are thinking right now?

  But to comment on your message...

  I realise that policing the number of shots is impossible. But, then so is it in every other shooting venue. Most shooting matches of any type depend on the honesty of the people involved. It's like locking your house or car up. If someone wants to break in those locks aren't gonna stop them. Rules are utilized to run a match in a fair and equitable manner so participants will know what is expected of them. But, some people feel these don't apply to them....... Unfortunately some have used this disregard in ASSRA matches to win matches or set records.

Sections 2.30 & 2.31, A & B...... This is as it should be, and is the rule in all shooting venues I'm aware of.

  So, as far as I'm concerned the current ASSRA rules are as good as they can be under the circumstances. What I disagree with is making, or changing the rules so people can "feel good".

  Over on the WSU Forum one of the comments Steve Garbe made makes a lot of sense. You have the last place and second to last place shooters shooting side by side. The second to last place shooter has ten shots on the paper in ten shots. The last place shooter took 11 shots to get 10 on...... and beats out the second to last shooter. How do you think that shooter feels getting beat out because the other shooter could take that extra shot(s)? Do you think he'll be back?

  So.... In order to make one shooter "feel good" you really ticked off another. What have we gained?

  Everybody needs to be on a level playing field! PERIOD!

PETE

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year everyone!!!!!!