Glenn, the Madole floorplate does indeed drop down with the lever, and the hammer is then visible. Also he used a flat mainspring almost identical to the wall style. I'll send you pictures if I can figure out how to do it. Don't expect me to give you my Hughes book, however. If you want one then you'll hafta get your own, 'cause I ain't giving mine up.

But I might lend it to you.

The NEGC triggers appear from the catalog photo to be the same as the ones Brownell's once offered under the Anschutz name. The owner of NEGC is well-known both for the quality of his products and his close connections to the European gun community and so I personally would have no hesitation in using these triggers. I figure he made a deal whereby he's now the US distributor for these triggers which appear to be the Anschutz triggers under a different name.

Brownell's has quit offering a lot of the PME stuff, I heard it was because they couldn't mark it up enough to meet their marketing goals. Whatever. Precise Metalsmithing Enterprises is owned by James Wisner and the last addy I have is 146 Curtis Hill Road, Chehalis, WA  98532. That was current as of 1998 but I heard that he moved since then.

I've used many PME products over the years and have found them to be top-notch, every one. His stuff is primarily geared toward bolt-actions but of course some things have universal application such as his sights & stock furniture etc. His DSTs have very attractively-shaped case-colored triggers that are spaced very slightly closer together front-to-rear than the Anschutz ones, and they have an adjustable drag on the letoff adjusting screw like the Anschutz. The cheaper DSTs, like the formerly-available Jaeger and most all the ones for muzzle-loaders, don't have the adjustable drag and are generally inferior IMO.

Of course we're speaking of the typical 2-lever trigger here, the one that hasn't changed materially in the last 400-500 years since it was first used on the original traditional Schuetzen target arm, the crossbow. There's not a whole lot to be done with this design except harden & hone the sear surfaces properly, and IME both the Anschutz/NEGC and the PME products are done very well. Either one would be my top choice for a 2-lever trigger, and the ultimate decision would depend upon the dimensions & look of the trigger guard bow.
Life is too short to use an ugly gun, Joe

Joe, Did take awhile to get used to the Kepplinger trigger, but after finding and using the instructions for the adjustment from Brownell's, the single stage pull was so nice that I rarely use the set off hand, only when bench shooting do use it regularly. It did take a couple times back and forth to get the set adjusted to my liking. You can tell that IMO is it hard to find a better trigger for the Ruger #1-3, I'm one those that like’s the feel from the set position! If you ever get those photos together for hst, I’d sure like to see them, if you would consider forwarding them to me, my email is cbshooter @ epix.net (remove the spaces) Thanks, and can hardly wait for this project to go forward. Mike



Quote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know, the Ruger doesn't have either a rebounding hammer of a half-cock notch.  If the hammer were resting on the transfer bar, wouldn't the firing pin be resting on the primer of the cartridge?  And as to half-cock notches, I usually don't put all that much faith in them...  The Swinburn has an external cocking system, but works with a half-cock notch.  Seems to me like the  (good) Ruger safety would still be the best bet for the #1/3.  Just my 2 (euro)cents....
I also do remember some german system which had a pushbutton in the buttplate - when you shouldered the rifle, it automatically switched the safety off.  When the buttstock leaves the shoulder, the safety goes back on.  How about that for a solution?

Folks

Could some kind soul please give us some background on flat springs versus coil.  So far as I’m aware gunmakers favored coil springs for reasons of economy of manufacture.  I’m interested to know the defining characteristics of the two types e.g. if a flat spring is faster or slower, if indeed a spring has this characteristic, and any other issues relevant to which is best for which jobs.

Cheers - Foster

HST and Joe S.  -----   watch that Shelor fellow, he taught Lassie how to kill chickens. He has been known to stretch the truth sometimes like when we were young and drank lots of white stuff made down in the swamp.     Ken

Ken & Glenn, the thing of it is, Ben himself would probably own up to the fact that he ain't right.

I just hate it when they admit it up front like that, it just takes all the sting out of it.

Glenn, I agree about recessing the safety button on the Ruger. Somewhere in what we jokingly call my files, I have a reference to an article about doing that very alteration. I'll see if I can find it & get back with you. As I recall it was a fairly simple procedure. And congratulations on your new book, it'll provide many hours of drool time.

Foster, the No 1 trigger has indeed changed over the years. Back in the middle '60s I worked over an early No 1 for a good friend & was able to achieve a very creditable 8-oz pull by filing & stoning the factory parts. It's been so long ago now (plus my CRS) that I don't remember any specific design details but I do recall that when I worked on a later No 1 in the early '90s, I didn't recognize the parts or the geometry. Took an entirely different approach to achieve a good pull with that one.

The coil-vs-leaf spring controversy rages on, at least in some quarters. The Green Frog says that the coil is faster in the Winchester walls, but others disagree. It's a well-known fact that the early flintlocks such as made by the likes of Joe Manton & Durs Egg are much faster than any locks made today, even when made to the exact same dimensions & geometry. And I believe it's true that most M/L competitions today are won with modern leaf-spring locks, but I could be wrong about that. I have seen it written that a good leaf spring will always be faster than a coil, but know of no scientific proof for that statement. Not saying the proof doesn't exist, just saying that I haven't seen it. I personally have no definite knowledge but favor the leaf spring.

But Froggie, I gotta confess that I'm using a coil spring hammer in one of my walls. Just color me parts-challenged.
Regards, Joe

Glenn, I've been planning just such a test. I have a low wall with #2 octagon GM barrel that threatens to become my new LW test mule at least for the next little while. It's a flat-spring frame currently fitted with a coil spring hammer & wall SST, but I also have both 1st & 2nd model flat spring hammers to substitute in it. Also have some titanium SST parts (VBG, thanks!) to test as well as a new re-breeching idea to tighten up the headspace. Now that it's become cool enough to shoot, I plan to spend a couple of bricks of the Eley good stuff to find out a few things.

Pray tell give us some ideas about just exactly what styling & chambering do you have in mind for your sidelever Ruger?

Whoa, wait a minute here, before we do that let me make you a bet. I bet you that regardless of whatever styling ideas you may have right now, after you look at Hughes' book you'll have some new colors in your paint box. Good ones too.

But you're really gonna hafta improve upon the trigger guards shown on some of those rifles. Some of 'em IMO really detract from the overall beauty of the rest of the rifle. Please let us know what you think after you have a chance to look at what I'm talking about. After you have a chance to pick your chin up off the floor.
Somebody told me there were no groundhogs in WI. Izzat true? Joe

Hello Folks - another 2C worth

Some of De Haas’s analysis of actions and a few of the patent documents allude to the issue of the effect of movement of the hammer and lock mechanism on accuracy, implying that having the firing mechanism moving strictly in the same axis of the bore (axially aligned ??) is advantageous to accuracy.  Conversely a hammer “whanging” around, or a coil spring moving at say right angles to the bore (up and down for example) is not ??

Obviously lock time is the primary factor but does anyone have any opinions as to whether a fast hammer is as easy to shoot accurately as a fast axially aligned system like a Sharps Borchart or a Martini, how about some comment from the Ballard fans ??

I want to understand this because I think it may be useful to understanding how we should power our modified Ruger hammer to best advantage i.e. does it remain as a coil spring powered, mouse-trap type or leaf type.

Cheers - Foster